Follow Us on Google
Adetutu Folasade-Koyi
Special Adviser to the President on Niger Delta and Coordinator of the Presidential Amnesty Programme, Prof. Charles Dokubo, speaks on why Nigerians think the agency is a cesspit of corruption and how to fix militancy in the Niger Delta, among other issues.
Why did you go to the US recently?
I went there to see our students; our delegates from the Programme and to thank the Nigerian embassy there, for the assistance they’ve given them in terms of their needs and all that. I met the ambassador, to express our gratitude for their help, particularly when students protested.
Did you meet with the students? Can you provide insight into what you saw?
Yes, I met with some of them. What I saw was that although they were on holiday, some of them came to see me but one student caught my attention. She is a medical student and she’s been doing excellently well and she came to thank me for what PAP has done for her and family because, by her admission, without this programme, she wouldn’t have been in Washington DC. Those I met there also told me of their experiences; when money was not forthcoming on time, as well as other issues. I told them of how we’ve turned things around and how we pay them when money comes in and they admitted there are lots of changes since we came in because I pay as and when due. As for our ambassador, Justice Nsofor, I’ve known him since I was in primary school so, it was more like homecoming for me. I last saw him since the civil war! For me, the visit, the aspect of meeting with the students was successful.
How many PAP delegates are studying in the US?
Altogether, we have a little above 100 students. In the Washington area alone, there are about 14 of them and most of them, aside this girl studying Medicine, most of them are rounding off next year because I met them at the mid-term of their studies and the policy of PAP is that we are going to draw down on overseas studies; that would also reduce our outlay on foreign education for delegates.
You’ve said previously that some of your delegates were sent abroad to study courses they could study in Nigeria
Of course! That was the case because those who were in charge of this programme had the concept of ‘catching up with the rest’ of Nigerians and in doing that, those were some of the mistakes that shouldn’t have been made. If you are paying for somebody to study Political Science or History and International Relations in America, you can as well spend that money to train them four or three students here in Nigeria. So, for me, that idea of being marginalised and now trying to do ‘catch up’ was such that it drove them to do things they shouldn’t have done.
Some delegates were sent for training as pilots. Is that scheme still on?
Of course. We are sending them back to finish their flying period. They were stopped but I want them to go back, so that could be well qualified; about four of them. We even discovered it’s cheaper to do the course in America than Nigeria or any West African country.
Really?
Yes! We looked at the cost-benefit analysis of the programme and because of the specific nature of the course itself, flying, we decided it was best for them to go back and complete it because it would be too expensive to do here. We also want them to be re-directed such that if you want tertiary education, you can do that in Nigerian universities, where you can have the same qualification and work in Nigeria. Why can’t we do those things in Nigeria instead of sending our students outside the country? Some of our pilots are already flying, with Air Peace. They walk up to me to tell me that they were part of the Programme and that was where they were trained. It’s quite gratifying for me.
Have you thought of integration of these graduates into the Nigerian labour market?
Of course! The fact is that we have a job-placement unit in PAP now, which was not there in the past. I decided to create that. We established links with international organisations and, with them, they could be able to place them in jobs, wherever there are vacancies; because of the type of network we have developed with employers. That’s my interest.
How many have you done since you took over?
We’ve done about 1,800 job placements for our delegates. We follow them up in the sense that they are now dedicated PAP ambassadors.
What’s the latest development on the looting of PAP resource materials in Bayelsa?
There was no looting at the Bayelsa warehouse. The incident is being handled by the Police and the report is with the Federal Government. The police have identified some of them and I believe they will be prosecuted. I can’t sit here and preempt the report of the investigation. It’s been with them for the past four months.
When will stipend payment end?
It’s not for me to decide because government set up this programme and when it was set up, it was initially for about two years but when they realised that there were some unfinished businesses, they gave latitude for this office to operate. So, in terms of stopping stipends, that is a matter for the Federal Government. We have to provide environment for vocational training, in all states of the Niger Delta and, if you’re looking for job placement, you must acquire skills. Stipends can’t be forever. This amnesty programme is for Niger Delta but, not all Niger Deltans are involved in the programme. People can carry placards and demand that those in the programme are being given stipends and they must be incorporated, but, they don’t belong to the programme. That’s what they don’t understand. They think that they are being deprived but it is not so.
Can’t PAP bend over backwards and admit more people?
I can’t do that unilaterally. I’m working on a tight schedule because the Federal Government knows we are dealing with 30,000 people. I can’t include and neither can I exclude people from the programme. I believe Niger Delta people are not lazy; if given the right environment to thrive, to acquire quality education and compete with others. The third phase is to create enabling environment for them to have jobs to do and we are pursuing that vigorously.
As an expert on counter-terrorism, there are still militants in the Niger Delta. Where does the problem lie?
The problem is that, in any part of the world, where you have conflict, or insurgency, it’s not easy to end because the organisations will mutate (because they also want to be part of the programme). Our environment is facing the same problem and don’t forget the issue of ‘politicisation’ of these militants.
How do you mean?
Politicians use them as foot soldiers; to pursue personal goals, not about goals of the Niger Delta.
Have some of your delegates reneged and gone back to militancy?
They’ve never reneged in the sense that we have been able to sustain their stipends and when they are approached to be part of subversive activities, they quickly come to the office to tell me and identify the people instigating them.
How can PAP steer the militants towards seeing Nigeria as their own?
It is important for me because Niger Deltans are no longer marginalised people. The fact is that we must also stand up and work for ourselves. Stipends are just a policy option. The end goal is for them to be gainfully employed; just like any other Nigerian. That’s my goal here.
There are insinuations that influential Presidency officials give you directives on what to do
I doubt that anybody would do that; even my boss does not give me directives. If they try to do that, I will take it to the highest level because I was appointed by the President and nobody can force anything through my throat; to accept it.
Some may have asked you for jobs, contracts, through proxies
No, no, no! It has never happened. You must understand that, although, this office is a Niger Delta Office, there are also Nigerians who are interested in the peace and stability of the Niger Delta.
There were speculations that your recent US trip was a means to launder PAP funds. How much did you take with you?
I took only $10,000. When I told the lady I met at the point of entry in the US, I was asked how much I had with me, which was the normal, routine question and I answered: $10,000; according to the law.
The speculations could have a foundation somewhere?
There is no foundation anywhere! People just talk from their fertile imaginations! Any rationale, well-meaning Nigerian would ask how I would carry billions to the US. If I had carried $1 million to the US, I would have been arrested and the money confiscated!
You could have done that with an official passport…
I only use the Nigerian passport. I don’t use any official passport.
There are also insinuations that PAP is a cesspit of corruption.
In the past, it could be that, but, in my time, things are now done differently. I’ve not allowed them to infiltrate PAP, to make things like that possible again.
Who are ‘them?’
Those who have benefitted from the corrupt system in the past, who believe it’s going to be that corrupt system and if you don’t give them, they concoct nonsense against you, those I’ve told that this office can no longer be run that way. I’ve been given some information and I’ve got information from security agencies; about the activities of those who were here before. I will continue to do what is right. I will do what is right, those against it can continue with their nonsense. When I leave, those who benefited will say that Charles Dokubo did this. Our people can’t continue be stipend-dependent. When I was growing up, I never saw a Niger Delta dependent on anything. They work hard for whatever they got but the environment is now different; the threat of blowing up pipes is now a way of life for some people.
If you were to leave today, what would you consider as your achievement?
I always tell people it’s Adagagba, the oil and gas training center for middle and lower cadre of workers! I wish we could replicate it in all states of the Federation! I don’t want to award contracts but I want us to do that! To build structures of learning, where our people can go and learn anything they want to! If I’m able to do that, I would just say; thank God! Because, even if I’m here or not, they would see it and it would be a lasting legacy. I want that but, what I’ve seen is that even if Jesus Christ is here, they will still accuse you of something. They see you here and they don’t know where you are from and they want to tar you with the brushes they used to tar others.
