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•Lent, Ramadan happening same time should unite Christians, Muslims
By Vera Wisdom-Bassey
Former Prelate of the Methodist Church Nigeria, Dr Chukwuemeka Uche, has called on Nigerians to learn to manage their religious differences and live together in peace, unity and harmony.
In an interview with Saturday Sun, Dr Uche reminisced on his time as leader of the Methodist Church in Nigeria, even as he counselled clerics to always take their health seriously. He also insisted that pastors and prophets churning out ultimately false prophecies on politicians and elections hardly hear anything from God.
How has life been after retirement?
Well, it has been a very pleasant experience. I discovered that stress can kill. Most of the problems I was having with health have all disappeared. For instance, I realised that my BP has normalised, sugar level has normalised. I don’t know, because I am not a doctor, whether stress has to do with rising blood sugar level. But since I retired, all the vital things in the body normalised; all the pains I have in the body have disappeared. I have been enjoying a very comfortable life and the touch and influence of the Holy Spirit rejuvenating and refiguring my system. I am happy about that and thank God for that.
In my former office, which I visited recently, my car was besieged. People were happy. All of them came out to greet me and they were telling me good things. There are some offices you will go to and many people will not come out. But mine was quite different, so I am very happy. Some came touching my body. Even in the place where I lived at Yaba, all the Hausa people came out, saying ‘Daddy we missed you.’ But then I counselled them to work well with the new man.
Since you retired, how have you been keeping your brain active?
Well, I read a lot. I have access to books, and so I pick up small books and try to go through them to keep my brain functional. I no longer do jogging; rather I walk. I track about three kilometres, and after it, I go to take my bath. That is what I do Wednesdays and Saturdays. I feel very happy. I think the body is working very well.
Looking back, what were the things you did that, if given another chance, you would do differently?
Nobody is perfect, and no system is perfect. Well, I tried my best, but then our church is structured, and you mind your business. You win souls for Christ, which we tried to do. We tried to give capacity to workers. What I failed to do was to have money-yielding ventures for the church. It was not easy to do it from the regular church, but then calling individuals, producing water for the rural areas, we did some in the north, some of the areas where they had IDP camps. We cannot leave government to do everything. We involved some foreign agencies. Some of the projects in the North-East were handled by a Bishop. We had houses with two bedrooms for displaced persons where they were rehabilitated. Such things we did, and I would like to do it more and more for people. I struggled to give the church a television station, but then the bill was humungous, They were demanding N13 million every month, but then I felt the priority cost was so huge. The TV was my priority, but then I recommended it to my successor. We had to install our printing press – we hardly go out to print for worship things; we were printing in the office. We had workers as auxiliary staff. I think making the church commercial did not work out for me. Our church is not commercially-oriented, but socially-oriented and we did very well. We had schools that we run. We have many ambassadors, many governors that went to our schools. We are still on it. I know schools are an investment you don’t see the dividend immediately; you have to invest and invest. You know our church is known by all and sundry. Even my friend, Matama Sule, they knew Methodist Church for its social works, taking care of the deaf and dumb, those that had leprosy. In short, Methodist Church helps to eradicate leprosy in the 1940s and 50s. We had hospitals that treat people with tuberculosis, and they still exist. So we do those things we cannot see, but those who benefit from it are very happy that our church is doing that, and we are doing that quietly. We don’t make noise nor do we like too much publicity. We know that God takes all the glory.
What has been your lowest point in life?
Unfortunately during my tenure, I lost two of my bishops. They were young people. Why should they die? One was a little above 60. They had similar sickness but they were not the only ones. Many recovered, but the two of them did not. The issue is related to stress, which can lead to strokes and lead to death.
This is common among ministers of God. How could this be avoided?
I lost a Professor from my village, about 56 years. He just collapsed and died. He loved ministering. He would preach and preach, but then he was combining it with his lectures. He loved youth ministry. When doing this, sometimes, you might forget your medication. There are simple medicines for hypertension and diabetes, for these are common problems that ministers do have. I don’t know whether they are aggravated by stress. So it is the same thing, collapsing and dying after preaching. Ministers should know that they are still flesh and not spirit. They are flesh and blood. Ministers should plan their lives so that they can have a moment of rest. They should plan their lives in such a way that they should have a moment of rest. Nothing wrong with going out one day a week to isolate yourself and pray and refresh, even though I discovered in the ministry that there is mental stress, not just physical stress. You are thinking about visitations.
What are the high points?
One of the greatest works of a minister is counselling. You counsel people you think have come to their wit’s end. So that is one thing that gives joy, when you talk to somebody. I have seen people who say they want to commit suicide, even big men. You make them come back to their senses. Even those who say no more to their marriage, who have been living for over 20 years, we bring peace and harmony to them. And when we see them walking together now, I feel very happy. I was able to reconcile so many couples that would have ended their marriages. We were able to restore many children. We did all that for humanity and they are happy, preaching, praying for people, teaching the word of God, care and counselling.
The high point of my ministry is when I make altar calls, because I believe in open-air evangelism. I did that in all parts of the country and they gave their lives to Jesus Christ. When I pray for barren women and they come with either twins or triplets, or one child. When I visit again and they said this is a product of your prayers. You know we don’t make noise or publish them. But I believe it is the work of Christ. On two or three occasions in our ministry, some people were ready to die. Somebody went to India and they told them, no hope, that they should go and wait for their death. But after prayers, that person is alive today. So we had several cases like that but then I believe in faith healing. When we lay hands on people and they recover. He or she started hearing. You just prayed and left and this boy started walking. So I feel happy, heaven has recorded it. That gives me joy that our ministry in the Lord was not in vain. It has to produce the result and that is the high point of my life. So it gives me joy that we planted a seed and it yielded fruits. That is something of joy. But the highest points in my life are the day I wedded and the day I was ordained as Prelate.
Before the elections, different pastors and prophets named different candidates as winners of the presidential elections. Most of such people didn’t win. What is your reaction? Is God the author of confusion?
Well, the point is that I have not endorsed any candidate, but let the right candidates win. God knows the people and knows their inner mind. Let those he anointed win. One thing is this, there is a way God behaves. If God behaves like man, some wicked people wouldn’t be and so many others wouldn’t have been. But God has a way he does his things that we cannot understand. Why I don’t want to comment much about the election is because the matter is in court. I don’t want to disturb anything but let the law of the land take its course. Why do I prefer people to go to court and seek redress? I don’t like people killing others because of tribe. Whether you are Igbo, Itsekiri, Yoruba or whatever. You are a Nigerian. I see Nigeria as an entity, and as I am seating here, I can tell you that Igbos are my people for sure, but I have many friends across the country. They are good people. But in every tribe, some people are very fanatical, discriminating, very hateful because of no reason. They are in every tribe. This is bad. I hate it. Personally, I don’t like the way the Igbo are treated in Nigeria. You know the way we are enterprising, we are very friendly, very industrious. We bring water out of rock. You cannot kill such people. That is their nature. Igbo man is like Israel, and Jewish people survive where others could not. I want to tell you to remove Igbo from Nigeria and Nigeria will no longer be sweet. I visited an Emir in the North in 2019, and another person, a Justice of the Supreme Court called me. He told me that he loves my people. When there was this Abiola crisis, your people ran away from our community and the community was like a graveyard. Nothing was working. You want something to buy, you cannot see it, because the igbo were bringing those things. So we have to beg. We have to go to Igbo land, met the Obi of Onitsha and others to beg them to allow their people to come back because we cannot survive or be happy without them. So that is why all those saying Igbo should go, it will not be easy for them. But then, I don’t support the Igbo to fight the people on whose land they are sojourning.
Now, on those giving prophecies, most of them are fake. They don’t see; God doesn’t tell them anything. Let me tell you, three months before the election in Abia, I knew that the person who won now would win. Some Senators won that I did not publish. I just called them that God said they would win. The Lagos State Governor, Sanwo-Olu, because of what I saw in him, I saw in him a personality that is out to serve. He once kept us in a hotel for four days and sought our opinion on his administration on education, infrastructure, making peace and harmonious relations. We made a blueprint and gave it to him. He listens to us. I was among the people he invited. I was able to interact with Imams here in Lagos. Even when I was kidnapped, some Christian groups visited me. That was more than money.
There were Christian prayers, Muslim prayers. That is one thing I like about Sanwo-Olu. He is a bridge builder. For me, I love him and want him to succeed. I always tell people, don’t vote party. Vote people for their integrity and for what they can offer. So, those try to destroy people or property are poor, people who cannot survive without politics.
I worked in the church and these are people who are dangerous in this country. They are like mosquitoes; they suck blood from politics, some of them can kill. Like a man was caught by the DSS sometime ago with ballot papers printed with results, and he said somebody sent him.
I would have advised that Nigeria should leave presidential system, because they are not mature, but go back to parliamentary system of government. Today, people have turned politics to full time jobs and employ thugs. Nigeria can only be okay for parliamentary work. We should also practise true democracy. People should control their region and contribute to the centre.
How do you relax?
I relax by reading and watching news. I watch news from foreign and Nigerian news stations. I hunt for news and they help to increase my vocabulary. The TV has become my companion, and I read the word of God. It gives me strength. I eat good food, wake up and move around. During the holiday, I play with the ones that are three years old, and when you see me play with them, you won’t think I am an old man.
What is your message for Nigerians this Easter?
We have been in Lent, and Lent is something we Christians do, the fasting of our Lord Jesus Christ for 40 days and 40 nights before he started his ministry. And one thing about the fasting is that at the end of it, he was not found wanting. We should leave everything that borders on the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, and like our master, he was not found wanting, and he ended up in the crucifixion. But that was not the end of the story. Rather, it was cheering news that he arose. “From the cross to the crown.” That is what we celebrate. We celebrate the triumph of Jesus over sin, Satan, death. We also celebrate victory given to us, peace, freedom, enlightenment and others that Christ has given to us. So our physical father Abraham, the father of faith, if nothing else, this period of Easter coincides with Ramadan. So we should unite and not play religious sentiments to destroy ourselves. We should see ourselves that our religions is that of Abraham, or Ibrahim, and that should unite us.
Some are scared that there might be Islamisation of Nigerians?
I am not afraid of Islamisation. It can never happen. Never! Underline it; it will never happen. Anybody that tries it in Nigeria wants to end Nigeria. And also you cannot say Christianise Nigeria because that will be a foolish thing to do. So let’s live side by side. That is my message for Nigeria.
