• Talks about opposition and 2027, LP crisis, his relationship with Tinubu, among others
By Christy Anyanwu
Pat Utomi, a management expert, is a Nigerian professor of political economy.
Utomi has been involved in politics, running for president in 2007 and 2011.
He has also been involved in various civil society initiatives. He is a columnist and has hosted a TV show called: “Patito’s Gang.”
While some critics question his motives, Utomi remains a prominent figure in Nigerian politics and academia.
In this interview with Sunday Sun from his United States of America base, he spoke passionately about Nigerian politics, his proposed Shadow Government, the way forward and lots more. Excerpts:
Prof, you have been abroad for some time now, hope you have not Japa?
No. I will return on 12th of June next month.
Is it mainly because of June 12 celebration in Nigeria calendar or what?
Funny enough , I bought my return ticket months ago and besides the fact that it will be convenient because I traditionally have an invitation to speak at an event, MKO Abiola residence, and I thought that since my flight will arrive in the late morning it will be convenient to just go from the airport to the Abiola residence before I head home.
You recently formed the shadow government, which action the DSS has gone to court to challenge? Has the court served you on this?
Like I said, I have not received anything. But they are slow in acting. First, I formed this government in 2008. Why are they waking up today? I suggested the idea of Shadow Government after the 2007 election as a way of deepening our democracy in helping to generate rational public conversation in matters of policy that government is pursuing. Helping raise the voice of citizens relative to those policy choices and the offering of alternatives. When the election began in 2008, one concern that some of the senior opposition leaders had was that people were worried about how many seats in the cabinet. There are so many parties in Nigeria that this would become a distraction from the goal which is to deepen democracy. So, we left it at that time. After the 2011 elections, the idea came up again. The person who was working in the leadership of the progressives after the death of Chief Antony Enahoro was Chief Olu Falaye. We had a long discussion on the subject and after a while we started and the meetings took place in Lagos. As I pin-pointed out, at the time, one of my big concerns was health care. And the person who we invited to be our health care expert was Dr. Leke Pitan. He was very useful in giving us prospectivee on health care. The person who was the Shadow Person for Power is still playing that role till today, Dr. Jerome Okolo and so on and so forth. There is no big deal about it above beyond getting people to become more focused on different parts of activities of government so that they will have expertise on those particular government activity . This new excitement is strange to me. It is a testament about the deterioration of our democratic ethos in the country.
The last time I checked, you were a member of the Labour Party. Have you left the party?
I have been trying very hard to focus on party dealings, I’m trying more to coordinate activities of different parties, in composition , I have been working to stimulate growth in several different parties. So, I want to leave that here for now.
Just wanted to know if you also carry them along in this Shadow Government deal, if you have supporters?
Yes, there are Labour Party people in this Shadow arrangements, there are people from SDP, there are people from ADC in it and several other parties.
You once contested for the presidency in 2007, but recently you declared that you won’t contest for any election again, many could not reconcile this with you forming a Shadow Government, how do you look at this?
Just to say to people the office is little or no interest to me because the kind of scroudrels that fill that space are so focused on using politics for their self interest and feel everybody is like them. They think the reason everybody is in the arena is to grab the resources of the nation. I want it to be clear that I’m not looking for anything. I have been asked to be a minister before I turned it down. The last person who did that was President Yar’Adua and he went the extra mile. Two hours, he was talking to me to persuade me to join. And I said to him, it’s not because I have anything against being in office. But because in Africa, I’m training. I have degrees in political science and all that. I know that one of the biggest challenges we have in Africa is what is called the corporatist state in post-colonial Africa. And what does this mean? It means that in African politics, there’s a tendency to look for a strong voice of opposition and drag the voice into government. So, as to rubbish it or to weaken it. And that I did not want to be a victim of incorporation. And that I wanted to be somebody who offered an honest view to advance the good of all. And President Yar’Adua said to me that he respects my view, but that he believes that I will still make a greater impact from inside. It was on a Friday , he closed work that day and we went to the house, his residency in the villa. I now said to him, look, I’m a patriot. You can wake me up at anytime , at 2:00a.m, ask for my views and I will give it to you honestly. I told him that what he needed to do was to find seven good people and bring them in. You can count on my advice. Let those hustlers who are looking for jobs, they can contract awards. Let the seven good people man certain critical ministries. That all these hustlers who are looking for jobs can have contract awards. I emphasized that the seven people will make the government work. And Yar’Adua said, okay, why don’t you find me those seven good people, come along with them and I will back you. At that point, I was ready to back off my position. And I said to him, but I can’t give you seven names just sitting here. Let me return to Lagos. I will write down the seven names and send. I went back to Lagos wrote the seven names and I gave the envelope to Steve Oronsanye. And that was the last I heard. Yar’Adua took ill shortly after. And the rest is history. But I was told by somebody very senior that he probably never got that envelope because he thought I snubbed him at the time he was dying, which is not correct. I didn’t snub him. This was what happened. In Nigeria, whenever you want something done well for the good of society, aaah! Because of what he is looking for, not everybody is looking for something. Tinubu, the President of Nigeria, when he was governor of Lagos, I was leader of his cabinet retreats. I used to go and retreat with his cabinet.
And for a fact, let him tell you how much he paid me. I used to do that for companies and I would charge companies N20 million, to run a retreat, but for the Lagos State government, I charged nothing because I thought it was my citizen’s duty. As I used to call it (which is why he calls me citizen). That’s his nickname for me.
So, if I did all I did for him, when he was governor, including incurring the anger of President Olusegun Obasanjo whose policy team I was chairman of, when he was candidate, but who got very upset when he heard that I was helping out Tinubu the way that I helped, which is why I didn’t end up in the Obasanjo government. Many people called me, was it Waziri Ibrahim, Oby Ezekwesili, saying that Baba is very angry with me for joining AD. My response was: I am not AD. I am a citizen, I’m contributing my meat to Lagos State. And I am glad that Bola Tinubu cannot show one naira he ever gave me for doing that work.
Many believe that people like you should have helped to resolve the crisis in Labour Party, why is LP still in turmoil with people like you and Peter Obi still in the party. What are you people doing to end the crisis?
There is no crisis in Labour Party. In every Nigerian political party, you’ve got people who are really agents, people from outside trying to cause dissension, they have their mission because that’s what they are paid to do. So, the best thing is to ignore them. I’m not an official of the party, so I’m deliberately chosen partially because I believe that the next engagement is not going to be about this party. But it’s going to be an agglomeration of activity of parties. Which is why I created the Big Tent from the very beginning. And the Big Tent was designed to be a bigger party. To include people from more than one party. Even though it would move into a party that is backing candidates running for election. In the last election, one of the stimulators of the concept of the idea was that there were several very senior people who did not want to be in a party, but wanted to be active in determining the outcome of elections. And they were incorporated into the Big Tent. So, it is that concept of the Big Tent that I continue to work on. That is why I am slow to identify with a particular party. Because, again, it’s very interesting, if you look at the history of opposition politics in Nigeria and the role that I have played in it, that should be understandable. People forget sometimes that I am the very first presidential candidate of the ADC. That was the platform in which we consent professionals trying to engage when we decided to become involved in partisan in 1999.
We collectively agreed not to enter partisan politics after our struggle as civil society against military rule. We thought that it would send an impression that our intention was personal power interests. So, we generally revolted not to become involved in forming a party as some of our members have suggested. That meeting took place in my office which was on Idowu Taylor in Victoria Island, Lagos. I recall clearly standing outside after the meeting and Donald Duke said to me, okay ooo, una sabi, I am going to go and organise my state. That’s how he then went and organised with Liyel and Bassey, the takeover that was effective in Cross River. If at that meeting we had agreed that we should go into partisan politics we would have done that for several states. But at that meeting some people argued that we don’t want to give the impression that all the struggle against military rule that we were doing it because we are interested in office.
And this is why we chose not to participate in 1999. So, when we saw the way things were going with the PDP, some said that we should rescind the position, which we did. By 2004-2005, when we then decided that we should go into partisan politics
political economy.
Utomi has been involved in politics, running for president in 2007 and 2011.
He has also been involved in various civil society initiatives. He is a columnist and has hosted a TV show called: “Patito’s Gang.”
While some critics question his motives, Utomi remains a prominent figure in Nigerian politics and academia.
In this interview with Sunday Sun from his United States of America base, he spoke passionately about Nigerian politics, his proposed Shadow Government, the way forward and lots more. Excerpts:
Prof, you have been abroad for some time now, hope you have not Japa?
No. I will return on 12th of June next month.
Is it mainly because of June 12 celebration in Nigeria calendar or what?
Funny enough , I bought my return ticket months ago and besides the fact that it will be convenient because I traditionally have an invitation to speak at an event, MKO Abiola residence, and I thought that since my flight will arrive in the late morning it will be convenient to just go from the airport to the Abiola residence before I head home.
You recently formed the shadow government, which action the DSS has gone to court to challenge? Has the court served you on this?
Like I said, I have not received anything. But they are slow in acting. First, I formed this government in 2008. Why are they waking up today? I suggested the idea of Shadow Government after the 2007 election as a way of deepening our democracy in helping to generate rational public conversation in matters of policy that government is pursuing. Helping raise the voice of citizens relative to those policy choices and the offering of alternatives. When the election began in 2008, one concern that some of the senior opposition leaders had was that people were worried about how many seats in the cabinet. There are so many parties in Nigeria that this would become a distraction from the goal which is to deepen democracy. So, we left it at that time. After the 2011 elections, the idea came up again. The person who was working in the leadership of the progressives after the death of Chief Antony Enahoro was Chief Olu Falaye. We had a long discussion on the subject and after a while we started and the meetings took place in Lagos. As I pin-pointed out, at the time, one of my big concerns was health care. And the person who we invited to be our health care expert was Dr. Leke Pitan. He was very useful in giving us prospectivee on health care. The person who was the Shadow Person for Power is still playing that role till today, Dr. Jerome Okolo and so on and so forth. There is no big deal about it above beyond getting people to become more focused on different parts of activities of government so that they will have expertise on those particular government activity . This new excitement is strange to me. It is a testament about the deterioration of our democratic ethos in the country.
The last time I checked, you were a member of the Labour Party. Have you left the party?
I have been trying very hard to focus on party dealings, I’m trying more to coordinate activities of different parties, in composition , I have been working to stimulate growth in several different parties. So, I want to leave that here for now.
Just wanted to know if you also carry them along in this Shadow Government deal, if you have supporters?
Yes, there are Labour Party people in this Shadow arrangements, there are people from SDP, there are people from ADC in it and several other parties.
You once contested for the presidency in 2007, but recently you declared that you won’t contest for any election again, many could not reconcile this with you forming a Shadow Government, how do you look at this?
Just to say to people the office is little or no interest to me because the kind of scroudrels that fill that space are so focused on using politics for their self interest and feel everybody is like them. They think the reason everybody is in the arena is to grab the resources of the nation. I want it to be clear that I’m not looking for anything. I have been asked to be a minister before I turned it down. The last person who did that was President Yar’Adua and he went the extra mile. Two hours, he was talking to me to persuade me to join. And I said to him, it’s not because I have anything against being in office. But because in Africa, I’m training. I have degrees in political science and all that. I know that one of the biggest challenges we have in Africa is what is called the corporatist state in post-colonial Africa. And what does this mean? It means that in African politics, there’s a tendency to look for a strong voice of opposition and drag the voice into government. So, as to rubbish it or to weaken it. And that I did not want to be a victim of incorporation. And that I wanted to be somebody who offered an honest view to advance the good of all. And President Yar’Adua said to me that he respects my view, but that he believes that I will still make a greater impact from inside. It was on a Friday , he closed work that day and we went to the house, his residency in the villa. I now said to him, look, I’m a patriot. You can wake me up at anytime , at 2:00a.m, ask for my views and I will give it to you honestly. I told him that what he needed to do was to find seven good people and bring them in. You can count on my advice. Let those hustlers who are looking for jobs, they can contract awards. Let the seven good people man certain critical ministries. That all these hustlers who are looking for jobs can have contract awards. I emphasized that the seven people will make the government work. And Yar’Adua said, okay, why don’t you find me those seven good people, come along with them and I will back you. At that point, I was ready to back off my position. And I said to him, but I can’t give you seven names just sitting here. Let me return to Lagos. I will write down the seven names and send. I went back to Lagos wrote the seven names and I gave the envelope to Steve Oronsanye. And that was the last I heard. Yar’Adua took ill shortly after. And the rest is history. But I was told by somebody very senior that he probably never got that envelope because he thought I snubbed him at the time he was dying, which is not correct. I didn’t snub him. This was what happened. In Nigeria, whenever you want something done well for the good of society, aaah! Because of what he is looking for, not everybody is looking for something. Tinubu, the President of Nigeria, when he was governor of Lagos, I was leader of his cabinet retreats. I used to go and retreat with his cabinet.
And for a fact, let him tell you how much he paid me. I used to do that for companies and I would charge companies N20 million, to run a retreat, but for the Lagos State government, I charged nothing because I thought it was my citizen’s duty. As I used to call it (which is why he calls me citizen). That’s his nickname for me.
So, if I did all I did for him, when he was governor, including incurring the anger of President Olusegun Obasanjo whose policy team I was chairman of, when he was candidate, but who got very upset when he heard that I was helping out Tinubu the way that I helped, which is why I didn’t end up in the Obasanjo government. Many people called me, was it Waziri Ibrahim, Oby Ezekwesili, saying that Baba is very angry with me for joining AD. My response was: I am not AD. I am a citizen, I’m contributing my meat to Lagos State. And I am glad that Bola Tinubu cannot show one naira he ever gave me for doing that work.
Many believe that people like you should have helped to resolve the crisis in Labour Party, why is LP still in turmoil with people like you and Peter Obi still in the party. What are you people doing to end the crisis?
There is no crisis in Labour Party. In every Nigerian political party, you’ve got people who are really agents, people from outside trying to cause dissension, they have their mission because that’s what they are paid to do. So, the best thing is to ignore them. I’m not an official of the party, so I’m deliberately chosen partially because I believe that the next engagement is not going to be about this party. But it’s going to be an agglomeration of activity of parties. Which is why I created the Big Tent from the very beginning. And the Big Tent was designed to be a bigger party. To include people from more than one party. Even though it would move into a party that is backing candidates running for election. In the last election, one of the stimulators of the concept of the idea was that there were several very senior people who did not want to be in a party, but wanted to be active in determining the outcome of elections. And they were incorporated into the Big Tent. So, it is that concept of the Big Tent that I continue to work on. That is why I am slow to identify with a particular party. Because, again, it’s very interesting, if you look at the history of opposition politics in Nigeria and the role that I have played in it, that should be understandable. People forget sometimes that I am the very first presidential candidate of the ADC. That was the platform in which we consent professionals trying to engage when we decided to become involved in partisan in 1999.
We collectively agreed not to enter partisan politics after our struggle as civil society against military rule. We thought that it would send an impression that our intention was personal power interests. So, we generally revolted not to become involved in forming a party as some of our members have suggested. That meeting took place in my office which was on Idowu Taylor in Victoria Island, Lagos. I recall clearly standing outside after the meeting and Donald Duke said to me, okay ooo, una sabi, I am going to go and organise my state. That’s how he then went and organised with Liyel and Bassey, the takeover that was effective in Cross River. If at that meeting we had agreed that we should go into partisan politics we would have done that for several states. But at that meeting some people argued that we don’t want to give the impression that all the struggle against military rule that we were doing it because we are interested in office.
And this is why we chose not to participate in 1999. So, when we saw the way things were going with the PDP, some said that we should rescind the position, which we did. By 2004-2005, when we then decided that we should go into partisan politics and that I should run deliberately to phase the agenda in 2007, which is the ADC as the platform. Now again, the elections of 2007 were so terrible. This is a waste of time we have to find a way, maybe through civil society of raising national consciousness on party politics and elections so that Nigeria can do it well. And we were working on that when Chief Antony Enahoro sent for me and asked that we perform what you call the patriotic duty of becoming part of the progressives movement . Out of respect for Chief Anthony Enahoro, we agreed. And I was representing the group in discussions going on. About in 2011, I have formed a party of progressives. And it is a long story as to how that process began. It’s a very long story in Nigeria’s politics. But Chief Olu Falaye, who took over after the death of Chief Enahoro said to me that the group decided that I should be the chairman of the party because everybody felt that I would provide consensus. I was not at the meeting, I was not even in the country when that decision was made. And so I found myself the first chairman of the SDMP as it was first before it became SDP. l was hardly settled as the Chairman of SDMP again , I traveled out of the country. I was in one of my major places as a global public speaker, I don’t know, maybe I was in Australia. One day, I got a call from Uncle Wale Oguniyi that the elders have decided that since the various progressives were given into camps that we should have a meeting of all the presidential candidates of the parties where the technical group will be agreed upon…so that the coalition, instead of one party, the coalition would then go to the level together. And because of that, they have decided that I would be presidential candidate. That’s how I became presidential candidate in 2011. I made no input whatsoever. I wasn’t even around when that happened. So, I did it simply as a patriotic duty. It was prompted by the elders. The idea was that I would then coordinate the meeting of the various candidates, including Buhari and all the opposition people who are progressives in the coalition who ran in 2011. It was in Protea, Maitama, Abuja that we had the meetings literally everyday for weeks. Buhari came to those meetings with his chairman, Prince Tony Momoh, Nuhu Ribadu, was at those meetings, Fola Adeola, I think Buhari came with Tunde Bakare. I was there as the presidential candidate of SDP. The idea was for me to help move everybody towards a consensus. But we didn’t reach…. Last minute, very last minute, the consensus fell apart because Buhari did not show up for the concluding meeting. Governor Shekarau, who was then governor of Kano was the candidate of the ANP and he was at those meetings. So, the bottom line is, I’m trying to show you that I ended up, not out of my desire or anything, but out of duty and service to the country as both a candidate of the ADC and candidate of the SDP. So, I have roots in both of those parties. At the level of having been their presidential flagbearers. So, it was natural for me to think in terms of movement that would involve those parties working together with Labour Party. Which really emerged out of effort that I made with Ayuba Wabbah, who was president of the NLC. The announcement of the initiatives that led up to the Labour Party run of 2023 started from a speech by Ayuba Wabbah at a dinner for my birthday in 2022 in Lagos. So, the fact of my trying to create an umbrella that would bring together people who could end up in any of these parties in coalition, bringing them together, was really a central mission of mine. And that’s why I think that was founded.
We’re talking about this coalition of parties. That’s the ongoing thing now. All politicians are now moving to APC. Do you think that any good will come out of these arrangements?
Well, you won’t find out until you try. Again, if we back up and look at what role one has played in this process, APC itself, I was in the room at foundation, again, to give that same desire for Nigeria to build a working group that would provide alternative voice. The Leadership Newspaper had its annual lecture. And the annual lecture series, the one for 2012, I believe it was Azubuike Ishiekwene was their managing director. And I was invited to give that lecture. And they gave me a topic, ‘Political Parties’. Because Nigerian political parties were not functioning as they typically function anywhere in the world. So, I gave this lecture. And that day, all the major leaders, or most of the major leaders who became part of the emergence of the APC were present, including Buhari and Tinubu. And that lecture was a true force of sorts on opposition politics. And I remember that the podium close to the edge of the high table, the person sitting there was the Chairman of Vanguard Newspapers, Uncle Sam I still remember the exchange between him and I as I finished the lecture which brought the hall to a standing ovation. Uncle Sam talked to me and said, you are deep ooo. I replied him jokingly, Uncle Sam do you think I was shallow? And we laughed over it. The late Paul Unongo ran up to where I was standing talking with Uncle Sam, he said I wish I could lock the door of this hall, and prevent all of you people from leaving here until you all do what you have just said. The hall was full to capacity. By the way the hall was full to capacity, that was Ladi Kwali Hall, Sheraton Abuja. To my mind that was the beginning of what began the APC. Of course, I was very closely associated with Bola Tinubu when he wanted to go and see Buhari to start the process , he said to me let us go. Let’s leave the story of what happened to history. If God gives life we would tell the story.
Bola Tinubu administration will be two years on the 29th of this month, how would you rate the government?
I am very deliberate about how I talk about government. I try not to make them personal. I have seen the kind of things people are circulating, oh, he used to speak good about Bola Tinubu, he doesn’t do that anymore. It’s not about Bola Tinubu, this is the point. I have nothing against Bola Tinubu, how did I meet Bola Tinubu? I was at an event in 1998 at the national theater when a certain gentleman walked up to me and introduced himself, I’m Bola Tinubu, you are my claim to fame. How can I be? He said: During NADECO meetings in London, Chief Enahoro would always say who knows what Pat Utomi thinks about this matter? And I would say to him I’m in touch with Nigerian through the newspapers. That’s how we both became friendly. I did everything to contribute to both his becoming governor of Lagos and making his government in Lagos work. I have no problem with him. I consider him very much a friend. People talking that I supported him and I’m against him is nothing at all. I am trying to build a nation, I’m trying to deepen democracy, every thing I have done in my life is driving forces. It’s not about this person is my friend that person is my enemy. I have never had enemies. Everybody is my friend. I just think that we should all work together with the right values and build our nation. A nation that our children will be proud of. That’s what I’m concerned about. So, to the specificity of the question, I’m unable to even give you a good answer. I have not been living in Nigeria since 2023. Even during the course of election that we aren’t all running around, I was dealing with the case of cancer. So, as soon as the elections were out, it is funny, I was taking treatment of cancer in Nigeria, in Lagos and going to V.I for my treatment. I was very open about it. When I first made the public statement on it, Engineer Eze of due process shouted at me, in Igbo Language, are you okay this man, you have cancer and you are in this country. You better go out and treat yourself. Second thought, I said maybe I should go abroad. Since then I literally visit Nigeria. I started treating the cancer here in the United States. In the course of the treatment I accepted a fellowship in Washington. That fellowship will end this month and I will return to the country next month.
As an economist, the hardship is much. So how can this be ameliorated – the hardship?
My real shock is that somebody who is not politically savvy would recognise that the crisis of economy that we face in Nigeria is really an existential crisis. And we’re in a moral equivalence of war with the state of the economy. And that this is a time to form a national unity leadership base to deal with this kind of crisis. You know, South Africa went to elections. It gets the kind of hard drive to beat, but they win, not because for ANC. And ANC government went into a national unity government to be able to work together to solve their problems. Nigeria had elections that many people think did not meet the basis of legitimacy. Nigerian economy is in deep crisis. Wisdom of the time suggested that at the very least, people like General Gowon at 32-year-old brought in together all the leaders of political groups in the country to say, let us together fix Nigeria. And instead, what I see is this pulling apart. It’s very sad. And never, never in my life I imagined that Nigeria would come to this. This is a big pain in me as I prepare, literally, to die. Because, I mean, people are scared of the word die. You know, my life is lived. Fifty years I’ve struggled to see if we could build a better society. And this is my final bus stop. What’s left for me is to die. And I just witness this very sad, sad, sad kind of situation.
You will not die, sir. We still need you…
I’m trying to set up a house and a farm in my village. I’m going to go there and just stay at peace with my people.
Sir, village life will not suit you…
It won’t suit me? In the day, I will farm. In the afternoon, I will take siesta. In the evenings, I will write my books.
I saw on the Internet, I don’t know if it’s real, but you said soon Nigeria will be like Somalia. Somalia will be better than Nigeria, is it?
If we continue like this, that will be the case, unfortunately. We said it when Somalia was going the way it was going. It has happened there. I am just scared. More than 30 years ago, I wrote a piece over this Nigeria. Are we going down the road to Congo? Or are we going down the road to Somalia? That was 30 years ago. This is so sad. Why this distraction is very painful to me is that it has never been a season where the need of Nigerians have been met.