Constitution review will fail because Buhari isn’t interested -Kingsley Chinda, Leader of PDP Caucus, House of Reps
Leader of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) caucus in the House of Representatives, Honourable Kingsley Chinda, has declared that nothing tangible will likely come out of the on-going constitution review exercise. Chinda, who spoke with NDUBUISI ORJI, said this is because President Muhammadu Buhari is not interested in the exercise. The lawmaker also bared his mind on the security situation in the country, separatists agitations and proffered solutions on how they can be addressed.
What is your take on the security situation in the country?
I don’t think anybody, except Lai Mohammed, will tell us there is an improvement in the security situation in the country. Whatever the government is doing, I believe what Nigerians want to see is the effect of all that, because a lot of money has been spent and people are dying everyday. I keep saying that Nigerian lives matter and should matter. So, it is not enough to trumpet the same language that, “we are on top of the situation” and things are getting worse. I want to see changes. We want a Nigeria where we can travel by road from Port Harcourt to Lagos, Abuja, Sokoto freely, and you are not concerned about your safety. When things are restored, government does not need to tell Nigerians that things have returned to normal. We will see it. We will feel it. So, I don’t think there is much improvement in the security situation. It is getting worse. And we need to do something about it.
There have been calls that the on-going constitution review should be an opportunity to restructure the polity, but the President recently referred to those clamouring for restructuring as “naive”. What is your take on this?
We told Nigerians a long time ago, that this government is deceitful, that this government is irresponsive to the yearning of the people. And they felt that we were just criticising because we are of the opposition group. But it is getting manifest by the day. Expect more. Some of us are not surprised by the comments of Mr President. When they told us that they were going to restructure the country, we knew that they were only buying votes from Nigerians. Having gotten the votes, knowing that he is not standing for elections again, he will continue to show his true colour. For those who are colour blind, they will not see. But for those who are not colour blind, we have seen this a long time ago. This government is not about Nigeria and Nigerians. It is about themselves. The only thing they want is how to maintain power. They can tell any lie again and attempt to deceive Nigerians. But they do not have the interest of this country at heart. How can anybody at this time, with the kind of division you have in this country, disunity that is palpable and you are saying that those who are calling for restructuring are not serious minded? They don’t have the interest of this country at heart. It is unfortunate that persons who are not responsive, who are not true statesmen – selfless, completely and totally – find themselves in positions of authority and power. We pray that Nigerians should be wiser when it gets to 2023.
What is your take on rising separatist agitations in various parts of the country?
These issues are clear pointers that we are running a failed system. These issues are pointers that Nigerians are dissatisfied with what they are getting. And the only way you can quell these agitations is to change the style of governance and begin to do those things that will create confidence in Nigerians. Begin to do those things that they expect you to do. If this country is going the way it ought to be, nobody will be talking about secession. And if you seek my opinion, we need to begin to fix this country and fix it quickly. Because we cannot hold these things back forever. And when it explodes, lives will go. And these are avoidable deaths. We do not have a provision in our constitution for us to call for a referendum. Else, if a group of persons say sincerely and truly “we want to be on our own,” I don’t think you need to compel them. The reasonable thing to do is, if there is agitation, you discuss with them. You dialogue with them and when dialogue fails, you call for a referendum. Let the people determine what they want.
Since there is no provision for referendum, how do you suggest the government manage the situation?
Amendment of the constitution to include these little issues. But unfortunately, Mr President will not also key into the amendment of the constitution. So, I see it as a waste of resources, a waste of time, a distraction and diversionary tactic. Because I believe Mr President is not even interested in the constitutional amendment that is on-going.
In other words, the National Assembly is just wasting its time trying to amend the constitution?
Let us see. The end will justify the means. We are all in this country. By God’s grace, we will still be alive and you will find out that this is a colossal waste of resources.
What is your take on the Fulani herders/ farmers crisis and the reactions trailing the decision of the Southern governors to ban open grazing in their states?
Open grazing is unlawful. Even as it stands today, it is unlawful, both under our statues and by practice. When you graze into my farm and kill my crops, is that lawful? When you graze and obstruct the traffic, is it lawful?
Open grazing is unlawful. The time has far passed. We have gone pass the period when you can graze the way our brothers are grazing. So the position of the Southern governors is very correct. It is apt. The major thing we need in the country is mind-set change. That is what we need. For the Fulanis, rather than the government talking about mind-set change, to bring them up to speed, with contemporary issues, government is looking at it from tribal angle and also heating up the polity. If you kill one cow, you will see the way they will react. What makes you think that the farmer will be happy if you kill his crops? I still say that we expect much more from government, particularly the executive arm. We expect much more. I call tell you in Rivers State, the process has started for the law to be in place. Like I said, that is a mere surplusage; because it is already an offence.
What would be your advice to President Buhari on the deplorable security situation in the country and rising tension?
First, dialogue. We have already said so, that we advise them to adopt the carrot and stick approach. The agitators, what are they calling for? Discuss with them. And also commence a mind-set change programme for our people. Now, some of these people that are agitating, some of them could be useful, if properly exposed, if properly informed. That is why I talk about mind-set change. And then, mean what you say. Everything you say should be what you mean. Mean what you say and say what you mean. Don’t say things because you want to play politics. You want to please people. No. At that level of leadership, mean everything you say and act it. So, I believe that these things can be taken care off. Most of these people are Nigerians; although we hear that non-Nigerians are amongst them. But there would be Nigerians that will lead them. I believe that if you cause a mindset change, you will take care of 60, 70 per cent of these security issues. We need to close up a little bit. We should look for ways to create jobs. An idle mind is the devil’s workshop. If we engage more of our youths. Not policies like shutting Twitter and all that, that will put more people on the streets. Avoid such policies. Come up with policies that will rather create more opportunities for the young ones.
Now, like the period we had the EndSARS protest, we made it abundantly clear that schools should be reopened. Schools were all shut down that period. If the schools were on, most of those young ones would have been in school. They would not have had time for that protest. So, as long as unemployment continues to increase, expect more crisis in the society. To tackle the security problem, we must begin to look for ways to create employment. We must discuss with people sincerely, find out their issues and begin to proffer solution to some of the complaints they come up with.
In the last two years, the House, in conjunction with the Senate, has approved several loans for the Executive arm of government. How come the opposition in the House never took a more critical stance on the loans?
The House resolution is always arrived at with majority. Not one-third. Unfortunately, we don’t have majority. That is why it is difficult for us to reverse such issues. But we have consistently mounted pressure. We have consistently aired our views. We have consistently talked to leadership both privately and publicly. We have also sent letters to the leadership, explaining some of these issues, why these things are not in the interest of this country. We cannot continue to borrow over and above our income. Nobody survives like that. Even your private business. The argument that “oh, America is owing” and all that cannot hold water. Look at the value of the naira today. It will continue to go down. So, for the PDP caucus, we have consistently taken position. But because we don’t have a majority, we might not have our way. But we have always had our say. We are not in support of the loans; particularly loans that are taken to service recurrent expenditure. Loans that are taken to upgrade the Nigerian Television Authority (NTA). Those are not things that you need a loan for. If there are capital projects, that perhaps will even generate income and the quantum of loan is reasonable compared to what you are going to execute, nobody will stop you from taking a loan. But when there is no clear means of paying back such loans, you take loans to pay salaries, to upgrade NTA. Nobody does that. No reasonable country will do that.
What is your assessment of the House in the last two years, in terms of checkmating the Executive?
We have not done very well in terms of checkmating the Executive. We have not done very well. But that is expected. The head of the legislative arm, who is the head of the Senate, you heard him when he said whatever the President brings, that he would pass. So, if the head of an arm of government is taking that position, how can we checkmate the Executive? And he didn’t mince words when he said that. And my assessment is that we have not done very well. We can do better than we have done.
In the last two years, not much has been heard of you in terms of sponsorship of bills and motion. What could be responsible?
Well, you can go to the leadership and ask them. I have over 18 bills. I have over 20, 22 motions. But unfortunately for the past two years, not one has been listed. I do my bills and motions and send to them as is usual. If they list it, fine. These motions and bills are not Kingsley Chinda’s private interests. It is the interest of Nigerians. So, if for any reason, the motions and bills are not listed, it is for the leadership. You can go into the leadership records and find out if the motions and bills are there.
Could this be because of the issue that arose over the minority caucus leadership at the inception of the House?
That I cannot tell. But as a parliamentarian, I do my work and pass it on. The rest is administrative. When they list the bills, when they list the motions, of course some of the motions are overtaken by time and all that. So, whether or not they list the bills is administrative. It is not for me. The reasons why they are not listed, I do not know.