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By Noah Ebije, Kaduna
Former Kaduna State Governor and former Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) National Caretaker Committee, Senator Ahmed Mohammed Makarfi, has revealed that the 2027 general elections may spring up surprises in the way and manner Nigerians will vote. He also dismissed claims that he belongs to any faction within the party, insisting that his position is guided solely by respect for the rule of law and electoral regulations.
In this interview, he speaks on the lingering leadership crisis in the PDP, attempts to portray him and other party leaders as loyalists of the Minister of the Federal Capital Territory, Nyesom Wike, among other issues.
As a strong stakeholder in PDP, what is the situation now in the party, because we have the Turaki camp and we have the Wike camp?
Right from the beginning, right from before the national convention, along with some other people, I held the belief that we should promote a give and take situation to avoid crisis. In certain situations, you cannot have it exactly the way you want it. Life’s quality is give and take; life is a give and take. So I am certainly not a factional person, I am a PDP person. What I work for is PDP, but I am also a lawful person. This matter is not about Wike or the new forum. It is about what, at any point in time, the law says, and it is not about your personal interpretation. It is about the interpretation of the regulator. If you are not happy with that interpretation, you go to court, and if the interpretation is changed, you abide by it. But if a regulator says this is the position, and you disagree with it, and you go and act on your own, you cannot set your own law and regulation. You are dealing with elections. All political parties, including PDP, must comply with the law and regulations. You cannot take yourself out and say you will do as you choose.
That, unfortunately, is the mistake some of us have made, those of us who have experience in this. I do not have a problem with people making leadership challenges. They have the right to do so until the matter is finally settled. I am not against that, but leadership challenges should not make party followers suffer.
There was a leadership challenge when I was chairman of the National Caretaker Committee, and we operated with a great sense of responsibility. At the time, INEC recognised my leadership. Every chapter of the party, for matters of election, whether they were with Makarfi or with Modu Sheriff, had to deal with whoever INEC recognised. When INEC recognised Modu Sheriff, every matter of election was referred to him. Even if people came to us and objected, we would say we were not going to waste their time and that they should deal with him instead. We had the leadership issue and the operational issue, which had to do with the law and regulation, and that is why nobody suffered in relation to elections during that time. That is also how it was easy to reconcile after the final judgment. We did not separate, we did not create or divide structures, we did not make people go and vote against the recognised position. We did not go against any subsisting position of INEC. If we all love the party and our party people, we should say everybody must comply with the directive while we continue with our legal issues on leadership. If we succeed, fine and good. If we do not, we should not make people suffer. But what is happening now is that if our directive is tied to a particular leadership, and another group makes people go through a process we will not accept, then at the end of the day you have made party members suffer, which is avoidable. The way we are going, either PDP ends up without valid candidates at all, or one set of so called candidates loses their money and wastes their time. If we love the party, why should we take that path? We should not take that path.
There is nothing wrong with pursuing the legal challenges over leadership. If, at the end of the day, there is a legal pronouncement, everybody will accept it. But in the meantime, we should not place party men and women in a position where they will be injured, and the way things stand now, some of them definitely will be, because of the actions of some of us. At the end of the day, reconciliation is the way out. Right from day one, before the convention in Ibadan, everybody who knows me knows that some of us favoured reconciliation, give and take. My position has not changed. A lot of water has passed under the bridge. It would have been better to reconcile then than now, but let us do it for the future of the PDP. There are things we cannot undo, but there are equally things we can do.
The Minister of the Federal Capital Territory, Nyesom Wike, is a member of the PDP, and today he is working for President Tinubu. We have also heard that you and Sule Lamido are working for Wike. Can you clear up this issue?
I have clarified it. We are not with any individual. We are with the law. We cannot go against the law and what INEC recognises. If we did, we would be wasting our time. We are talking about elections; you must follow the law and what it requires. You cannot make your own law and your own regulations, otherwise you are not operating within Nigeria. If you do not like the law, challenge it, and when you get a positive judgment, fine. So, the suggestion that we are doing this because of somebody is not correct. It is simply because that is what the law currently recognises. Unless you want to leave the party and not participate, as long as you want to take part, you should know that, following the ruling of the court, INEC recognises only those elected at the Abuja convention. They are the only ones who can upload candidates to INEC. People in Kaduna have been patient with our leadership.
Do you think I would lead them in a direction where they cannot participate in the election simply because someone alleges I am with this or that person? Then I would have been irresponsible. If I failed to enable our people to participate validly in elections, I would have failed. Whether they win or lose is a different issue, but the whole essence of politics is participating in an election and winning. Why should I, because of an allegation that I am aligned with this person or that, lead my people in a manner that prevents their participation? So, it has nothing to do with anybody. It has to do with respect for the law and regulations existing at any particular point in time. Tomorrow it may change, and I will follow what it says then. There is nothing personal about it, but until it changes, I cannot be disobedient to the law and regulations.
You mentioned the minister being with the president. I have also said, as far as the presidential election is concerned, I do not believe we have a good chance. Opinions differ. States will vote differently among the candidates, and even within a particular state, people vote differently. So, what is the issue? If somebody wants to vote a certain way, who do you want them to vote for instead? As far as the presidential election is concerned, if I cannot stop you from doing what you want, you cannot stop me either. So what is the problem?
Sir, if that is the case, don’t you think it will divide the votes of Nigerians and work to the advantage of the incumbent?
Look, the votes will be divided among the candidates regardless of how many are contesting. Forget the numbers for a moment; why did the opposition not come together? I have read that in other countries, opposition parties come together. So why did the opposition here not do the same, so the votes would not be divided? We in the opposition have our own faults sometimes. It becomes a case of “it must be me.” When it comes to “it must be me,” then you are part of the problem. The opposition should have set personal ambition aside, come together, found a suitable figure, whoever that person may be, from the North or the South, and supported that person, consolidating around them. When you create a situation where the votes will be divided, then the votes will indeed be divided.
Sir, does the PDP still have a future?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Among all the political parties, I believe the PDP, because it is deep rooted and not built around any individual, has the brighter future. At the presidential election in 2027, we really do not have to look far to understand the reality. PDP members may vote differently among the other presidential candidates. That is the truth of the matter, and we cannot pretend otherwise. This is a developing situation, and there cannot be one uniform position. It is not possible, even within a single state, when we are talking about the presidential candidates. It depends on the engagement of all the other presidential candidates with all the players, so it is not possible the way things stand at the moment. That is the truth of the matter, but time will tell how this develops. It will be different in other states. When you come to state and other elections, the PDP will perform well in many places. People will largely vote for individuals. Of course, people have different reasons for voting. It is not one single reason. Some vote because of party affiliation, some vote based on religion or ethnicity, and some simply vote because they do not like somebody. So, voters have different reasons for choosing Mr A or Mr B, as the case may be. It is not something you can sit down and define neatly. Those in the race have a lot of work to do. Anybody who thinks he can sit back with victory already in the bag is underrating Nigerians. I have said as much as I can on the presidential election. But when it comes to governorship, Senate, and House of Representatives elections, we have a lot of chances in many places. We are also following events and assessing things. As time goes on, our chances will improve by the day.
There are those who think the next election may be rigged. Well, only a lazy mind would say from the outset that the election will be rigged. Why should you simply walk away from the election? Work to win, work to prevent rigging, but why go on to say things may not be equal? No, things are equal, except if we allow them to become unequal.
Sir, when Vice President Kashim Shettima came to Kaduna the other day and told you that you are wasting your time in the PDP, indirectly inviting you to the ruling APC, how did you feel about that comment?
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It was a friendly jab. That is all I have to say.
What is the position of the PDP in Kaduna now?
For me, it is an open race. It depends on how people work for it. Since I want my party to do well and have a good chance, this is not something I am going to discuss openly. It is not a game where you simply go and talk. I prefer to be underrated in anything I do, but I can tell you this: voters, not just in Kaduna but in some parts of the country, largely vote for individuals. So it is up to the individuals to work hard. Those who do will get support in any way that we can offer. It is an open race; that is all I can say.
Isa Ashiru, described as your political godson, has decamped to the ADC. What is your reaction to that?
I do not have a reaction. That is a personal decision. I am in the PDP, and it is the PDP that I know and will work for.
Sir, if you were to meet the President, what would be your advice to him on the current state of the economy?
Well, you see, all the leading presidential candidates, when you look at their political policies, are virtually the same, and some may even be more extreme. The problem is implementation. When implementing major reforms, the weaker segments of society must be protected. My advice is that people’s cries and complaints should be listened to. This is not politics. Anything that can be done to support the weaker segments of society should be done. That is the work of technocrats. If you are a professional or a technocrat and cannot develop a workable policy and implement it in a way that supports the weaker segments of society, then you are not fit for that office. Political office holders occupying key positions in this area should be judged on performance. It is not even a matter of a year; it is a matter of months. How are you doing? If you are achieving something, you stay. If you are not, bring in a better person. Government should begin to function this way. If you want to do favours for individuals, you can do so in different ways, but there are certain areas where there should be no favours.
How do you assess the state of democracy and governance in Nigeria today?
Well, this is the longest period of uninterrupted democratic rule we have had in the country. In itself, that is an achievement. However, what democracy has delivered to the people is also a matter of concern, and people hold different opinions on that. If we take 1999 as a starting point, we should be seeing continuous improvement. Unfortunately, political parties have become something else, governance has also become something else, and security has not improved, particularly as security challenges have become more pronounced. That is not to say democratic governance from 1999 to date has achieved nothing. It has certainly recorded some successes.
However, the conduct of politicians and the behaviour of some people in government are issues that raise serious concern. Our inability to either stop or drastically reduce security challenges remains a major problem.
People talk about economic issues and other concerns, but in my view, once substantial progress is made in restoring security, economic activities will flourish and economic hardship will lessen. If I were setting priorities, security would come first, because it has positive multiplier effects on virtually every other sector. The key question is: what should we do about these issues? What should those in government do? What should politicians, traditional rulers, religious leaders, and sociocultural leaders do?
My personal view is that there are certain issues that should never be politicised, whether by government or by those outside it. Once such issues are politicised, valuable time is lost in addressing them effectively. Security, in particular, should not be politicised. If people outside government raise concerns or offer suggestions on security matters, government should not dismiss them as mere politics.
Likewise, those in opposition should not welcome insecurity simply because they believe it could improve their electoral prospects. That would be selfish.
Security is a matter that affects everyone. It should unite us while we maintain our different political beliefs and aspirations. In my opinion, Nigeria has reached a point where we need to collectively define our national priorities and address them together, while still maintaining our separate political identities and democratic competition. It is a very broad question, but for now, that is my assessment.
Do you hope to vie for any elective office in future?
God willing, in August I will be 70. I do not belong to the class of people who believe that it must always be them, that they must always be there, that they must push themselves forward.
I do not belong to that class of people.
I will be satisfied contributing in any way that I can, while more vibrant younger people are given the chance to lead us. That is my personal position.
