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By Agatha Emeadi
Chief Onueze Chukwujinka Joe (OCJ) Okocha, SAN, is Nigeria’s new Ambassador to the Republic of Ireland.
In this interview, he speaks on his new assignment, politics and the polity, as well as other issues of national interest.
Ambassador, what should Nigerians expect from you, and what specific areas of Nigerian-Ireland relation do you intend to prioritise?
Well, this is my first time of being an ambassador and my first time to go to Ireland as Nigeria’s ambassador to Ireland, concurrent accreditation to Iceland. It is a whole new vista for me, even though I am a student of international law which I studied at the University of Ife, graduating in 1977. I believe that my responsibility will be to represent the president, Commander-in-Chief of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu GCFR. And by the same token, I will represent Nigerians who reside or doing business in Ireland. The duties of ambassadors are encapsulated in the few statements that I have just made. The expectation of Nigerians should be focused on what my own duties and responsibilities as an ambassador are. Now, as an ambassador, I know that I will be heading the embassy of Nigeria in Dublin and all through the Ireland. Also I will be heading the embassy of Nigeria in Iceland. I believe that all the Nigerians living in these two countries will of necessity relate to me to bring up issues that maybe I will be able to solve for them. I also believe that as an ambassador I will also head the chancery of the Nigerian embassy in Ireland, supervise the consular section that will issue visas to Irish citizens and Iceland citizens coming to Nigeria to do business or visiting sake. So these are the things I expect I will be doing as an ambassador and they are also the things Nigerians will expect as I resume duty as an ambassador which will commence shortly because I have been given clearance to proceed.
Ireland has strong interest in education, healthcare, agriculture, trade and investment; what opportunities do you see for Nigeria to attract greater Irish investment and technical cooperation?
I believe there are a lot of opportunities. We have stated the interest and the specific potential that Ireland have in business, commerce and industry. The Irish citizens, companies that would like to establish in Nigeria will know what opportunity will exist and I will avail to them the knowledge of such opportunities. I have been told that they are leading in agriculture and Dairy products which we also would like to benefit from their experience. Again, I have also been told that they are experienced in technical products, selected motor and agricultural vehicles including land moving machines for agriculture. Therefore, it is my intention to explore all these opportunities and then make the Irish citizens and businessmen there to get interested in Nigeria because Nigeria is a huge market for the sales and exportation of services. I hope I will be in a position to get them interested and facilitate whatever may be the opportunities which we in Nigeria will benefit from.
Your appointment as ambassador to Ireland has generated considerable interest. Some said your long association with FCT Minister Nyesom Wike, played a role in your emergence. How true is that?
I can tell you without any fear of contradiction that it did. He personally nominated and submitted my name to the president. And I know as a fact that when my name came up, a lot of people were also surprised and made this same comment. I recall that in 1977 when I graduated, I was the best student in public international law in my set, I made an A’. While still in the university before taking our final examination, we had applied for jobs under civil service, I applied to be a foreign officer because I have always seen the position of an ambassador as glamorous. And I was given the level 8 job; I turned it down because I wanted to go to Law school first to get my seniority at the bar. So, I proceeded to the Nigerian Law School in Lagos and was called to the Bar in 1978 by which time obviously the employment offer in 1977 had lapsed. Then in Rivers State, people usually speculate that OCJ should run for governor or other political offices, I used to say I have no political ambition except to be an ambassador. I did not know that HE Nyesom Ezenwo Wike heard it and kept it in his mind. The moment the opportunity came, he nominated me as an ambassador from Rivers State. He said he has always known that OCJ wants to be an ambassador. So he gave my name to the president who graciously appointed me. It is a good one for me because I have practised Law for close to 50years. It is a happy development and I am grateful to God.
What lesson from your legal career do you believe will be most valuable in your diplomatic assignment?
Well, you know in the practice of law, our main responsibility is the settlement of disputes and if there are issues that cannot be resolved by amicable settlements, we proceed to litigate, take the cases of our clients to court; either to prosecute their claims or to defend claims against them. So, one thing reading in my favour is how to go about settlement of disputes particularly the modern trend that people have not adopted which is called alternative dispute resolution mechanisms. Not every matter has to go to court. With those skills, I will be able to negotiate whatever may be conflicting issues between natural and corporate persons, maybe citizens of Nigeria. There might even be disputes or some disagreement between Ireland, Iceland on foreign policy issues. So, I think I possess the requisite skills to conduct negotiations and settle things without the necessity of raising undue controversy. I also believe I may have been found qualified for the job as a lawyer because we are trained in a lot of things. Our citizens in Ireland might even be having difficulties among themselves; not just Irish and Nigerians. Nigerian and Nigerians can interfere. I will do my best to see that things are kept at a very agreeable level and all will be happy for it.
Sir, how concerned are you about the state of the rule of law, judicial independence and constitutional democracy in Nigeria presently?
I am very concerned as every right thinking member of the society would be. There are disputes here and there; some would become very intractable, while some will become vociferous. The rule of law is what we all are expected to observe. The Nigerian Bar Association of which I was the millennium president (2000-2002) has as its motto ‘The promotion of the rule of law.’ There is no wrong without a remedy. So for us, the rule of law is important. People must see it fit to obey the law at every level, not just individuals but people who are occupying constitutional and government offices. The rule of law is supreme. As a lawyer, it is my sworn duty to uphold the rule of law. I have been worried because these days, one sees people taking the law into their hands; people believing they can cause problem for their fellow citizens, people kidnap their fellow citizens and other criminal activities etc. We have many problems in Nigeria but we know the president is doing his best. I believe that the law enforcement agencies including the military are also doing their level best to tackle this problem of insecurity and breaches of the rule of law.
Rivers State has gone through a prolonged period of political tension involving the present Governor Sim Fubara and his predecessor Nyesom Wike and other actors. From your perspective, what is the fundamental lesson Nigerian should draw from the Rivers political crisis?
First and foremost, we must all agree to agree. Politics they say is a game of possible and impossible. Politicians know that matters that arise in our nation can be resolved by political solutions. The lessons we must learn must indicate that if we all belong to one political party, just like the former governor Wike and the present governor Fubara belong to People’s Democratic Party (PDP), the party machinery should be used to resolve the issues. Even before the president who was preaching peace, he told them to go back to Rivers State and settle their differences. Then some would not. Instead, they went to court and the case went all the way to the Supreme Court. Anybody who believes in the rule of law would return home and obey that judgment. This was one of the things that the president also said to the leaders of South-South People’s Assembly led by Obong Victor Attah that went to see him. So, people must know that the rule of law is what should govern all our thoughts and all our actions. Then there is no political issue that cannot be negotiated and settled. If you take an extreme position, you will only drive the people of your state into difficulty. That was how we ended with the difficulty of the governor being removed from office for a brief period when we had emergency rule in Rivers state. So, I hope that Nigerians has observed that the matter has amicably been settled. The governor and his predecessor have settled their differences. They are now on the same level paddling the boat in the same direction.
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Do you think that the settlement has resolved the underlying crisis in Rivers State, or are there some other skirmishes, unresolved issues that might resurface?
No. Everything has been resolved and we are all moving ahead happily as one united Rivers State of Nigeria.
What do you think motivates Mr Wike’s strong support for President Tinubu despite coming from an opposition party?
Well, as he himself has said, he is entitled to support whichever candidate that is running for any office. He supported President Bola Ahmed Tinubu in 2023 while he is a member of PDP. He is still a member of PDP and serving FCT Minister appointed by the president. He has said he will support Tinubu to emerge again for the second time as President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So, I do not see any controversy that should arise with it. We belong to parties as a fundamental right. Even in the United States of America, there are possibilities that a husband is supporting the Democrats while the wife is supporting the Republicans. When elections come, some members of Republicans will vote for the candidates of the Democrats and vice versa. It is a known fact that despite the fact that we are card-carrying members of one political party, it will not eventually determine one’s choice of candidate. The candidate a political party fields to run is also important.
Do you think that the influence of FCT Minister remains as strong as it was when he was the governor of his state, especially now that he operates from Abuja, the capital territory?
He is still strong, if not the strongest. He has been able to put together what we call Rainbow Coalition in Rivers State and many states are trying to copy the idea. How did we emerge with Rainbow Coalition? We had PDP, APC and some other political parties working together in unison to ensure that President Tinubu emerges as our president come 2027. They are also working together and agreeing to have government of unity. We are Rivers people with various political parties, but then we looked inwards and put our heads together to know who will be the best candidate to serve in various positions regardless of the political party the person belongs to, this is what Rainbow Coalition is doing in Rivers State. It is being managed by our leader Ezenwo Nyesom Wike, FCT Minister.
What do you think is the outlook of the 2027 elections? With Tinubu, Atiku and Peter Obi on the same ballot paper, do you expect anything different from the previous voting pattern?
I am a strong supporter of President Bola Ahmed Tinubu. Certainly, I will vote for President Tinubu. But every other Nigerian has a fundamental right to vote for the candidate of his or her choice. I am an advocate of everyone coming out without fear or intimidation and vote freely. Let the electoral umpire make grounds for us to have free, fair, peaceful and transparent election. Personally I am supporting President Bola Ahmed Tinubu who has done well and still doing well. I believe he will do better.
What difference do you think former Rivers State governor Rotimi Amaechi’s choice as Atiku’s running mate will make to ADC?
Well, I do not know about that. Former Governor Rotimi Amaechi is a Nigerian who is entitled to contest for political office in any party of his choice. He has also contested to be the presidential candidate of his party with Senator David Mark as the Chairman. When they finished their primaries, I believed that Alhaji Atiku Abubakar won. He defeated Amaechi and negotiated with him to be his running mate and Amaechi agreed to be his running mate as vice presidential candidate of that party. Many have done that. It is quite appreciable and well appreciated in political circles when two gentlemen feel they can manage election and win for their party. They will know the benefit they will bring to the table if they work together as president and vice presidential candidates.
President Tinubu seems to have challenges here and there – alleged drug-related activities, questions about his academic certificates and others. There are also hunger, insecurity in the land…
People like to recycle what one can call useless rumours. In 2023, did these rumours not surface about our president? That is a man who in 1999 became the governor of Lagos State, one of the leading states in Nigeria with economic transformation and made it a state to copy by others. This is the same man who was a Senator before the Fourth Republic came along. He joined the NADECO people and went on self-exile when their lives were being threatened by the Military junta. All these are recycled falsehood. Nobody has proved anything. From the newspapers and social media reports, they said there is nothing against Tinubu. But people keep recycling this. He has gone to France, Turkey and conferences of international associations and bodies. It is a poisonous rumour that has failed to serve the perpetrators of these rumours. At the end of the day, nobody will put any seriousness on the views being expressed by those people. Those criticising Tinubu are rumour mongers and rabble-rousers.
For the economy, people lose sight of what was before. We have seen governments come and go. I am here to tell you that this is the best government we have heard for some time now. The world economy is down, worsened by the issue of America invading Iran. There is a war going on there with the state of Hormuz which is bordering on Iranian Republic which is blocked. Petroleum products, crude oil, gas are not flowing freely through the state of Hormuz. Fighting a war which nobody knows what is all about is a problem. Every independent country should be allowed to manage its own affairs. The problems we are having in Nigeria are problems that all countries confront. I am happy that we have a president who is confronting the problems and doing his best to solve it.
Sir what about the administration’s incessant borrowing?
Every government borrows and every government in Nigeria has borrowed. There is this need from time to time to start a project and finish it. America is perhaps the highest debtor nation in the world. Even as people see them as leading world power, but it’s owing humungous amount of money to its banks and other financial associations. Same with Japan, United Kingdom, every country borrows to ensure services are provided for its people at the earliest opportunity. Thank God, the lenders themselves know Nigeria has the capacity to repay with natural resources, including oil and gas, agricultural products and other minerals. Since Nigeria has the capacity to pay, so nobody should deny the privilege of borrowing to fund projects.
Then insecurity is a phenomenon that is worldwide with their wars and conflicts everywhere. Ours is becoming a bit concerning because it is all internal. We are not fighting any external aggressor even though we have skirmishes at our boarders which could be dealt with. It is something that we expect the government to deal with, and I am satisfied that the government is doing its level best to deal with insecurity.
