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Senator Ibrahim Kazaure is a former Ambassador, Senator and Minister of Special Duties under the Late President Musa Yar Adua administration. In this interview with DESMOND MGBOH, the chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) from Jigawa State said Nigerians should not be surprised at the uninspiring performance of the Buhari administration, insisting that he had long ago warned Nigerians against voting for the president. He also spoke on the raging insecurity in the north, corruption in high places, the Wike issue in PDP, and APC’s Muslim – Muslim ticket, among others.
You have been a bit silent or nearly absent in the national political scene in the recent times. What exactly is happening?
Well, you may be right, but I think it is deliberate. The time is not exactly right. When two big elephants fight, we the small, small ones would go behind and watch. We are getting older. I am among the ten oldest politicians in Nigeria or in the North and therefore it is not good for me to be talking every day. Sometimes it is better to stay by and watch or to simply intervene behind the scene and help bring about solutions. Talking everyday might end up complicating the situation at hand rather than solving the challenges. That is why I am a bit quiet.
Talking about your party, PDP, you have just elected your presidential candidate, Atiku Abubakar, but with a lot of problems anyway. How prepared is your party to take over from the APC come 2023?
Well, just as you said, what is happening in PDP today is nothing but minor internal wrangling which in any case is normal in a democracy. I assure you it is nothing serious or something that cannot be resolved. At the end of the day, I assure you that all of us, protagonists and antagonists would sit down together and iron out whatever are the differences before the general elections- because none of us would come to any benefit if the party should lose the 2023 elections and we all know that. So the best bet left for all, whether you have an arch- enemy or you do not have, is to come together and work together to win the election. Whatever is going on, at the end of the day, we must come back together and solve the problems within the party. Like I said, these issues would go away with time.
Let us have your view on the Wike issue. He was made to believe he would be appointed the presidential running mate, but he was ditched. How do you feel about that?
I really do not wish to say much about that so as not complicate the situation further. You see, Atiku is my brother and my boss and Wike is my very good friend and he has been helping the party all these years and we al know that. I would plead to be left alone on this topic, but you can rest assured that we are praying to resolve all the problems in the party before we go for the general elections.
There are reports suggesting that some APC governors are trying to woe Wike away from the PDP. Are you not worried?
Those in the party that are supposed to do the right thing within the party, they know themselves- they should go and do the right thing with Wike. As for the visit of the governors, well you should know that that is politics and things like this happen in politics. That is Nigeria politics and it is left for you to step up your game to ensure that they do not succeed in whatever that took them there. If I am in PDP, it does not mean that I should not have friends and brothers in other parties anyway. The one that is not acceptable is to cross carpet from one party to the other. I expect Wike to know exactly what to do- he is a matured person, he is a governor under the PDP, he was a Minister with the PDP and he has laboured for PDP. He has done a good job for the PDP and I am very sure that he would not abandon the ship at the middle of the ocean.
Two political parties – Kwankwaso’s NNPP and Peter Obi’s Labour Party – appear to have broken out of the PDP. How would these affect the chances of your party?
As a politician, if I should lose one person from my party, I will be unhappy and I will regret the fact of the loss. That is the truth. Personally, I am not happy that we lost these two gentlemen to other parties or that left us to form other political parties. Their departure simply means that we have been lessened in our strength. Even if it was only one man that left your party, you have been subtracted by one vote. It is not a plus. I am very, very unhappy about their exit from the PDP, but what can I do to stop them? I cannot stop them.
Is their defection not going to affect the chances of the party in the coming general elections?
Well, an election is like a pregnant woman and I must admit that I am not a doctor who can predict what she would deliver. Coming to your question, indications show that we must work harder than before because of the people that left. We must work extra hard. PDP would win, but we must work extra hard for the win, unite among ourselves and work harder than before. Take, for example in Kano, we cannot get the same size of votes we got before because of the defection of this faction of the party. But we would work hard to get a sizable number of votes in the state.
What about in the South-East , not just Kano. Is PDP expecting to get the same size of votes there?
Let us admit it. Obi is a factor in the politics of the South East today. At the end of the day, he is going to reduce our strength in the region. But that notwithstanding, we are going to do well in the South East. If you check the people there, they are mostly PDP and I am sure that our party membership in the South East has been impressive. Irrespective of Obi, we would surely win the governorship seats in Ebonyi, Enugu and Abia States, I assure you.
The biggest controversy in town today is the same-faith choice of the presidential and vice candidates of the APC. How do you see this?
That is a very big topic that people like me should not talk about. I am a Nigerian, I am a Muslim, I am Hausa, full-fledged Hausa, not Hausa-Fulani. And so, I do not want to comment on something that crossed the path of religion or tribe. I don’t like issues of religious sentiment and to be honest, I don’t want to talk on this issue.
But your party deemed it fit to balance the two religious groups?
It is the circumstances that made it to be so. PDP has taken a Northerner and they cannot pick another Northerner, they have to go the South and pick a Southerner. Actually that is how it is supposed to be. That is how Nigeria factor designed it, if you take here, you take there.
Can you assess the Buhari administration? He has been in power for seven years and some months now?
Zero! He scored zero! I told Nigerians and campaigned to Nigerians that they should not vote for Buhari because I was pretty sure that if we picked Buhari, we will be in trouble and today where are we? I don’t hate Buhari. Buhari is part of me and he is from me, but he does not have the capacity. To me even if I hate someone, which I do not anyway, once I know that you have the capacity to deliver and I know you have the capacity to lead, I will stand by you. The issue is, can you perform? Nigeria with a population of 200 million, you cannot allow your individual selfish interest to inform your choice of whom to vote for. I told Nigerians from day one, since when he contested against Yar ‘Adua, I told Nigerians please don’t vote for Buhari, but they didn’t listen. It is too late to cry.
But the people, especially the ordinary people in the North insists that Buhari is an honest leader, a man of truth (Mai Gasikiya), despite criticisms like yours?
Which honest man? I agree he doesn’t steal as some people say- because I am not too close to him to know if he does or if does not. But I cannot say the same of some of the people I see around him in the course of governance.
But the EFCC has been charging offenders to court, including people in government. How do you say he is not doing anything?
My brother, my brother, my brother. Three times. How many people that have been accused of stealing huge amounts of money in this country today are walking as free as air? They are even chattering aircraft and moving from point to point and how many people from this government that have been conspicuously found guilty – not by the normal court – but by the public court? Everybody knows that they have stolen, yet they are living their normal lives. Somebody recently stole money and was removed from office and every Nigerian is aware of that case, yet…
The former Accountant General?
Yes ! I told somebody that if you asked me to write the money in figures, I don’t even know how many zeros that make up that size of money. I am 67 years old and I never heard of that size of money, not even by a way of a joke. I was a Commissioner, I was a Minister, I was a Senator and I was an Ambassador and I have been to all the six continents of the world. I have never physically seen somebody who had that kind of money. But somebody was accused of stealing that off the purse of Nigeria and he is comfortably sitting in his house. That should worry all of us.
How do you assess the present government on insecurity?
This administration has failed every in every aspect of governance, not just insecurity. Anything you can think off or expect of good governance, they failed. This is just a club of people. Is this a government? Thirty six military officers at one spot were killed and the President took his aircraft and left for a meeting. Why not send a deputy or a Minister to represent him. At worst he would tell his host that I have a problem in my country and they would certainly understand. People were burnt in a bus. If it was in America or anywhere, the President would rush down there to go and see them. Yes, it is not that his coming will rescue them because they were already dead, but his presence would say a lot to the bereaved families. Who is safe in Nigeria today? Who is safe? Nobody is safe! But why should it be like that? Why should it be that we are not safe in our own country? Let me tell you, our soldiers are famous in wars, we are famous in rescuing people and we are famous in anything that has to do with force and military, yet we cannot suppress a force that disturbs us from Kaduna to Abuja. We cannot protect our highways from Gusau to Sokoto, we cannot protect our road from Katsina to Kano. Haba! And our brothers and sisters are dying daily, paying ransom everyday! People are in captivity for days and months and you can’t rescue them and you are saying that you are for the masses. Which masses? I honestly don’t believe that any country would accept this.
Let us come back to the PDP. Do you see Governor Ifeanyi Okowa, the running mate of your Presidential candidate as a very good choice?
But he has a very good President and leader and that takes care of every other thing. When you have a leader, he leads. The desk of the President is the last bus stop. He is the principal. Atiku can take somebody from anywhere in Nigeria and together they will win elections and they will perform well as joint ticket. I know him, he can perform and he can even surpass the expectations of Nigerians. Wait and see! If you remember in 1999, who led that government? It was Atiku. I have no doubt that Atiku would be a good President.
But Obasanjo, just recently described his appointment of Atiku as his running mate as a big mistake. Yet you say Atiku is a great leader.
Let me not join issues with my former Oga and he remains my Oga till tomorrow. It is his own view that he is saying. Can you stop Obasanjo from talking? Would anybody stop Obasanjo from airing his own view? You can’t stop him! He is a missile, when his views go out; it must hit. Nobody can stop him from speaking.
How do you assess Jigawa State under Badaru’s seven years in office>
That is a big question. That is a big question. Normally I don’t comment on people just like that because I have not gone to Jigawa to assess the performance of the governor. I have also not been close to him. But having said that, what will I say? When somebody like Sule Lamido leaves an office, you think that somebody like Badaru would be able to wear the shoes he left behind? Be fair. I want you to see it from that perspective. You know that someone like Badaru and others would not be able to sit down on the chair and do the same thing No way! They cannot! One, they don’t have the same courage, they don’t have the same political intelligence and sagacity. They don’t have the same global exposure. For a long time to come, what Sule left in Jigawa State would remain the benchmark and Jigawa would still be a good state because of what Sule left. The shoe that Governor Badaru inherited was just too big for him. And we can all see it.
Beyond the issue of Sule’s shoes, do you envisage Jigawa State again falling into the hands of the APC administration in the forthcoming general elections?
We would beat APC hands down in Jigawa State and you must not forget that even in the previous election, APC did not win the polls. We would beat APC in this election. Our governorship candidate is young and has the capacity to dislodge APC. We have a very intelligent boy. He is young but intelligent. He is young but has the capacity. He can accommodate his followers and the people of the state and I am not saying he would surpass his father’s record, but he would try to equal the record. One thing I am sure of is that he would perform better than Badaru’s government.
What about the Aminu Ringim’s NNPP force in the politics of Jigawa State, bearing in mind the number of people said to be decamping to NNPP?
Honestly, I have not seen anybody defecting to the NNPP. You see between the PDP and Aminu Ringim, It is like a family affair. It is a family that has a problem and this is normal in families. Aminu took side and our faction took a different side. All the same we are still the same family and I think that in the next few days, things would change in Jigawa politics. We would sit down with Aminu and iron out many things. Maybe Aminu is coming back to join us, coming back to join the PDP. Yes!
Join PDP despite being a governorship candidate of another huge party?
The purpose of politics is to win. If I know that I cannot win, I will rather join the bandwagon or the winning train than remain where I am sure I may lose.
