From Desmond Mgboh, Kano
Former governor of Jigawa State and chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), Sule Lamido is a very blunt personality.
In this interview, he warned former President Goodluck Jonathan, his long-time political associate, against falling for the satanic overture of the All Progressives Congress (APC), saying it spells nothing but doom. He also throws light on the factors behind the choice of Dr. Iyorchu Ayu as the national chairman of the PDP.
He also spoke on Obasanjo, Atiku Abubakar and Bola Tinubu.
Besides, he passed his verdict on the Buhari administration, describing it as a grand failure even as he cautions the governors pushing to zone the PDP presidential ticket to the South to consult widely. Excerpt:
We just had a new leadership in the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and as one of the leading chieftains of the party, we would like to have your impressions and expectations?
I must say that asking me to give my impression of the new leadership under Dr Ayu honestly amounts to making me an onlooker of the entire process of his emergence and, therefore, an outsider. Your question is like this: something has emerged and I should give my view about the new development. I think you are not being fair to me. And I think it is inappropriate…
(Cuts in) Okay, let me put it in another way. You were part of the creation of the new leadership of the PDP, what are those factors that informed your choice of the leadership and what do you hope to achieve at the end of the day?
You see, PDP as a party was founded in 1998 based on some very clear visions in terms of our commitment to take Nigeria to a greater height. In fact, we began with a process of reconciliation and with addressing and curing all those obstacles which were militating against our political progress as a nation at that time. And so, the party was formed and thank God, based on these visions and the vision of the founding fathers. We formed the government for 16 years and there is no human history and administration, which is perfect. PDP is part of human history and which is operating in a very, very peculiar setting called Nigeria. So naturally, there are some problems. We cannot claim to have fulfilled all our wishes or attained all the goals we had set out for ourselves. But one thing is basic. The foundation of our democracy we enjoy today was purely100 per cent the efforts, commitments and thinking of the PDP. And that was why in 1999, even the then candidates from other political parties, were encouraged and designed to come from a particular zone. Because the intention was to reconcile Nigeria. And so, even at that time, the efforts were to bring candidates from a particular geo-political zone which all the parties also, in principle, agreed to. And what we have today, 22 years after, is the bounty of the PDP. It is what I may call the dividends of our efforts in the PDP. There have been some difficulties, there might have been some unfilled or unmet promises, some goals that were defined, but were not properly attained. But on the overall, the PDP laid the foundation of where we are democratically today. And in any case, these are understandable if you have to reckon with the environment called Nigeria. And so after 16 years, we lost power and APC came on board and since then, in spite of their claims of successes, in every sphere of life – whether it is economy, whether it is security, whether it is infrastructure, they are wobbling and we, Nigerians, are far better off seven years ago than we are today! Whatever are their claims, are you talking of the size of the debts when Jonathan left and what it is today? How many billion dollars are we owing today? When we left, in spite of their blackmail, in spite of their claim that the government of PDP was sponsoring Boko Haram, that it was our own making, we are better off at that time than we are today. In terms of the economy, it is the same story. In terms of the issue of corruption, it is the same thing. So, all their claims, all the claims they have mentioned are falsehood. These are people who had inherited PDP policies which they cannot properly implement. Look at this road between Abuja to Kano, it has been almost the same for the last six years. Look at power, the Mambilla issue. When Buhari came to power, he was abusing PDP. We stole money and that they were going to make sure that it comes into being. Six years into his government, even the road leading to Mambilla, there is no road leading to it. It has not been cleared. The only structure that is there is the structure that Obasanjo put up there in 2002. All their claims are nothing but propaganda and lies and today, Nigerians have come to accept governance as an act of telling lies. So, back to the PDP. In picking the new leadership, we have to ask ourselves. What was our vision in 1999? Where did we go wrong? And where did we derail? And so, we said that we need somebody who have clear knowledge of the background of the party at its formation, somebody who understands what the party was formed to achieve, who is committed and disciplined and patriotic and matured enough to be able to restore the confidence lost in PDP by Nigerians. And the only person who was there at the formation, somebody who is a key player, who believes in partnership, who believes in connectivity, and who believes in taking the entire party as a family and we settled for Ayu. Ayu is that ideal person with a clear head to lead the party at this time. He is the person to restore confidence in the party, unite the party and then give Nigeria the leadership that would convince them to invest their trust in PDP.
You are a founding father of the PDP and a good population of Nigerians is looking forward to the PDP for leadership of the country. What are those qualities, in your view , that would define the choice of the PDP presidential candidate?
To me, we need somebody – North or East, West or South, Muslim or Christians or even pagans or even those who worship irons – there are enough materials in the party to be used for the presidency. So the first thing now is doing away with those ephemeral things which define the thinking of leadership and governance in Nigeria. Things like he is from my zone, he is from my area, he is from my religion and so forth. We need somebody who is a true Nigerian, not a pretender. Somebody who will be there for Nigeria and somebody whom Nigerians can say yes this is our choice, I know this person and I understand him; somebody who understands the traditions of the country, who understands the culture of the people and who knows the country as an entity. And somebody who is able to give the kind of inspiration and confidence to the younger generation, who are apparently schemed out of anything decent under the present administration – because they have been abandoned, they have been left out on their own and they have been able to find their bearing on the streets. From the collective psyche of Nigeria, whether it is religious, whether it is economic and whatever, there has been a failure and the younger generation is trying to delink themselves, to find their own bearing. So, we need somebody who will be there to give them the inspiration and confidence. Apart from that, we need somebody who should be able to restore the authority of Nigeria as the leader of the black race. Nigeria is dualizing and, therefore, we need somebody who will be able to stand as a leader of a sovereign independent country known as Nigeria and then as a leader of the black race. Nigeria is the mother and father of the black race. We have 20 million blacks assembled in Nigeria. There is nowhere in the world where you will have this amount of blacks in the same geopolitical setting. Therefore, every black man, either in the Diaspora or here in Nigeria looks up to Nigeria for leadership and for inspiration. So, when we talk of our next leader, it should be somebody who understands that he has an international role to play – all these agencies. ECOWAS, African Union, United Nations and all other formations, so that we would be able to restore the standing of Nigeria the way we were in the past….
What about somebody who will be able to tackle some of these problems that are pending, that are hydra-headed and we don’t have the solution to deal with them?
You see those hydra- headed problems that you are talking about cannot be tackled by one person. I mean by the president alone. His is to offer leadership and give guidelines and directions so that the various institutions should stand and work properly – the bureaucracy, the clerics, the Mallams – I mean all the institutions in Nigeria must be up and doing the right thing for us to tackle these problems. He should be somebody who will give the right canopy and say you have a role to play for the emergence of a better Nigeria.
A few days ago, it was reported somewhere that some PDP governors were meeting to push for a presidential candidate from the South. What is your take to this move?
Well first, let me say that I am not very sure of this claim. But I read the report that they are meeting and may likely introduce this particular aspect of zoning. With all respect to them, as governors, there was PDP before they became governors. There will be PDP after they leave office. Two, we should be learning from our experiences. If the authority of the office you occupy becomes the determining factor of your political direction and political management, then it means that you are leaving a chuck of people outside. Then it means you are misappropriating their trust. So, I think that ideally, whatever they want to do, they need to consult, they need to know the mood of the country, to know the mood of the members of the PDP who also have right to be part of the process of the decision making they are about to make. I will only advise that whatever they do, they should consult widely, feel the pulse of the country, know the mood of the country and see whether what they say and what they about to do reflect the mood of the country. Sometimes, as governors you are engrossed in your own area of authority and because there, you are the Alpha and Omega, the mood there may be exactly what you want to feel. But if you use that mood to judge the whole country, you may be judging the country very wrongly. There you have total authority. You can say anything you want and the response will be positive. It is the office talking. But after your immediate sphere of influence, there are also others who should be reckoned with, the Nigerian people, the people in PDP, the leaders and also the voters, so you need to read their mood and their feelings and come up with options that align with them.
Sir, up till this moment, the PDP has been unable to fully revive itself in Northern Nigeria. Why is it so and what do you think the PDP should do to return to its pre-eminent position in Northern Nigeria?
I think you are not being honest in your question or assessment of the PDP in Northern Nigeria. You are looking at it from your own point of view, your personal judgment. And that is not the correct picture. For you to get a clearer answer to your question, look at Northern Nigeria, how it was six years ago and what it is today. Then you compare and contrast and tell me, which of the North you will prefer. This too will help answer the question on which of the two parties has done better in Northern Nigeria. Our common bond, our unity in diversity, our love for each other as Northerners, they are all gone today. Tragically, they are gone. Under PDP, the region was a united entity within Nigeria. We ensured that the North was secured and supported one another and we made progress in many spheres of life. But see the difference. Look at where we were seven years ago, look at how we are today. Then judge.
I am not talking about an assessment of the performance of the parties. I am talking about the man on the street, either as a result of his error of judgment or not, he seems not to be with the PDP as much as he is with the APC, despite the glaring failings of the Buhari governmen?
Apparently, you are trying to create a reality that is not true. But anyway, fine, fair enough. If the man on the street feels that he is okay with the way things are today, let him go along with the APC. If the feeling of the North today is that they are saver, happier, more united, more prosperous and more brotherly, fair enough. Let them have APC all the way to eternity. There is no problem. I have no problem. This is an issue of choice. God has conferred us with the intellect to be able to determine what is right or what is wrong, isn’t it? This is something for you to rationalize for yourself and make your own judgment. There are people who climb the skyscrapers and jump. Are there no people like that? It is their own choice.
Former President Goodluck Jonathan has remained on the radar, he’s like someone who is thinking of coming back to contest the presidency with a view to completing his uncompleted two terms as prescribed by the constitution. We may like to have your take on this. And what advice would you give to him?
Well, the first thing to observe is that here, there are some technicalities. He has been there for six years… if you are talking that based on the constitution he is coming back to complete his tenure, is he coming for two years to vacate to becoming the vice president for the remaining two years? Answer me? Then, how do you put him there, under an arrangement or under the Constitution? All this swearing in is about eight years. He has done six years and you are now clamouring for him to come and complete the tenure. Is he coming for two years or for four years? Number two. You see when we lost the election and I met him. I met him after we lost the presidency and for the first time, I became a kind of either a preacher, a Mallam, or a pastor in terms of my preaching. And he Jonathan knows what I told him. It is for him to reflect and look at what I said. Because how he became Nigerian president, against all odds, over and above those who have been there in the business before him, is God’s wish and God’s will. Sometimes, you have to go back to your God to be able to remain stable, otherwise you remain insane. If you are not very, very careful, you will miss your metal stability. If he thinks that the people who are calling on him, the people who are clamouring for Jonathan to come to the APC, let him reflect, are they not the same people who had called him names? Were they not the ones? People who are now clamouring for Jonathan in APC? So, if he wants to go, let him go. If he wants to go there, this time around, he is helping himself, not God that is helping him because all other ones (political accomplishments), it was God that was helping him. Now, he is saying that having attained what he is today, let him also use his scheming and his human strength to attain the rest. He is saying, “God, thank you very much. Go and rest. You have done your own bit. You have made me Nigerian president. I have been there and having been what I am today, I think I can go ahead with what I want”. So there is nothing to say, but to say that I wish him well. But then, he should know that he is coming to face his own party, which made him Nigerian president,which dignified him, which honoured him. He is coming to fight them? I wish him well. He doesn’t know what is called APC? He does not know them? That is the problem. All this ego-caressing…. They are vampires and they are very, very venomous. He has got a name, he has got a reputation which God has blessed him with and it is left for him to protect that reputation. Now, if he wants to aspire for the president, why can’t him come back to his party?
Are you saying that if he comes to aspire under the PDP, you are okay with that?
If he wants to come back, like the way he became Nigerian president , he will follow the same process of the party. In 2015, when he was there, there were primaries. In 2011, when he won, there were primaries and people ran with him. Let him come and join the race. And these his qualities that are being now promoted by APC – that he is this , that he is that – let them all manifest in his own campaign within the PDP umbrella. But for him to begin to rely on the preaching and promises of the enemy who is very, very satanic, an enemy, they say, comes out of your fold, comes to me in fresh and blood so I can confer the presidency on you. He should be very careful. That is all I am saying.
What about former President Olusegun Obasanjo. He is still around. His shadow is everywhere for good or as some people say, for bad. What is your take on his un-retiring, endless political presence?
You see in terms of authority in governance, I must say that he enjoys a total monopoly, because he is a former Head of State of Nigeria. During our civil war, he was an active player. This is somebody who also worked for Nigeria’s transition to democracy. And he fell from grace to grass, in fact, he fell from grace into prison. And by the time, he was in prison, he was able to reflect and know God even better. He was able to look at how God had been merciful onto him because the prison gave him time to go back to God. Sometimes when the ephemeral is pursuing us, when we are after these wordily things, it is only when something happens that we get back to track. So, Obasanjo was very lucky to pass through all of these. And God saved him and he came back. He was Nigeria’s president for eight years. And thereafter, he became an international man, the world over. Everywhere he goes, people respect him. They understand him, they know him and on any issue, they know where he stands. He has no gift of speaking from both sides of the mouth. He speaks from one side of the mouth. And so, if he is still around in the political space of Nigeria, you can’t do anything about that. That is what he is, a political phenomenon. Because he has this total dominance of authority and he is very, very knowledgeable. He knows this country very well, he knows Africa very well and in G77, he was the first Chairman when it was formed. In a number of settings and fora, local and international, he has been their number one. And he is very courageous; he would look at you in your face and tell you the truth. And that is what is called leadership. He has the moral authority to tell you the truth. If today, he, therefore, bestrides Nigeria, dwarfing everybody, it is understandable.
Atiku, too, has been around the political space. He has refused to give up on the presidential project. What is your take?
When it comes to aspiration, people have the right to aspire. Atiku has every right to run for the Nigeria’s presidency and he has the right to aspire for as many times as he desires. So, why single him out? Buhari failed how many times before he became Nigeria’s president? Tell me? He contested three times before he became Nigerian president. Atiku is very free to aspire for the topmost position.
But is Sule Lamido free to aspire and is he aspiring to be president of Nigeria this time around?
He is very, very free to aspire if he wants to.
Is he aspiring ?
I have been praying very, very hard and I have been saying my God , I beseech you, look on to Nigeria with mercy, see what we have been going through, see our situation. You blessed us with everything, we have human population, the resources, Lord we have got everything, but then we have been vandalizing ourselves. God please give us the best, give us someone who will save Nigeria. I am praying God give us for the best, no matter from where he is coming from, whether North or East, Christian or Muslim, God please give us someone who will save Nigeria, who make Nigeria, that is my prayer.
Looking at the age of some presidential aspirants: Atiku, Sule Lamido , Tinubu and others, they said one of them is not even well. Nigerians are bothered that we are on the path of electing another president who might spend more time tending his health than addressing governance issues?
I am not worried at all because God confers health and, therefore, you cannot vie into the authority of God in terms of his own creation. These are issues which are beyond you. You can talk about the age, bla-bla-bla. If God gives any of them the country, he will give him the health to run the country. This time around, Nigerians are praying very hard. Under APC, we have gone through hell. What we have suffered in the present charge is something else. Once bitten, twice shy. Today, Nigerians are saying God please give us your choice. All along we have been choosing our leaders ourselves, God this time around, we surrender to you, give us your choice. Ignore age!
But our world is changing. For instance, we have seen President Buhari, on a couple of times, lacking the speed to deal with a number of issues because he belongs to the previous age?
No, no! When you voted him into power, you knew he was very old. When the people were voting him, they knew he was old and they also knew his own capacity. So, they chose him. Like Obasanjo said recently, he is filled to his brim. He has come to his optimum and there is nothing more or new to offer. It is just like a full cup of water, if you pour any more, it will pour away. No matter what you do, he has reached his maximum capacity. You can’t go beyond your ability. So, why are you complaining?
Six years and half in power and with barely a year plus to go, your assessment of the performance of the Buhari administration?
I have been saying this, that we were in government, we did our best for 16 years. It was not appreciated, we were maligned, we were called names. Boko Haram , they said that it was the making of the government. The issue of subsidy, they said it was a fraud, that it was all lies. So really, we did our best for the 16 years that we were in government. And we were flushed out based on these lies. Now back to your question, I think the best person to answer the question are Nigerians on who this government is working for based on their promises. Nigerians should be able to answer this question. If their answer is yes, that the government is doing very well, they can continue to eternity. You see there are so many wrongs in this administration and the question is which of the wrongs do you even take and discuss? Lack of empathy, lack of integrity, lack of creditability, poverty everywhere, insecurity in the whole of the land, tension and disunity, how do you take it and which do you take? Everything about their performance is woefully wrong! It is in shambles. I can’t mark their script because I don’t know where to start! However, for those who think that they are doing well, for those Nigerians who think that this is what they want, I wish them luck.