By Gilbert Ekezie
General Superintendent of Holy Spirit Mission (a.k.a Happy Family Centre), Bishop Charles Ighele, in this interview speaks on State of the nation, as it affects insecurity, education, politics , economy and other issues. Excerpts:
What is your view on Muslim-Muslim presidential ticket by the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC)?
To be frank, I do not think I and some of my colleagues have anything against the APC presidential candidate, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu as an individual. I knew when he was governor of Lagos State. That time, I was in Benin, Edo State, but later moved to Lagos. When Tinubu took over from Colonel Buba Marwa, a popular and quite charismatic man as governor of Lagos State, he had some criticisms for the first year because he did not perform well. But later, he rejigged, and I said on my pulpit in Benin City that people should watch out for him as a strategist, master planner and someone who will go somewhere higher. Those were my impressions of him. So, I am not surprised seeing him do all that he is doing now. I also told members of my church that he would go somewhere, not as a prophecy, but having seen how he tried to get Lagos on a developmental process, which I like.
So, it is not about Tinubu, my concern is that if he wins as president and perhaps serves for two terms of eight years under a Muslim-Muslim ticket, when it gets back to North, they will likely operate another Muslim-Muslim ticket, which is quite suffocating. During MKO Abiola, I and my wife were enthusiastic, we queued and voted for him. So, my concern is what I told you right now on the implication of Muslim-Muslim ticket. Does it mean that there is no competent Christian in the North who can handle the position of vice president? In fact, it is quite unfortunate that something like that is happening in Nigeria.
What is CAN doing to ensure that Christians participate in the forthcoming election?
When Buhari won in the 2015 election, some said that was the worst election in Nigeria’s history. Then one other general said that was the best election in Nigeria. When I was interviewed on that, I said in terms of religious content, the election was free and fair. It reflected the will of the people, though there were rigging here and there. I like to be as honest as possible, though I didn’t vote for him, even when my Christian brother, Prof Yemi Osinbajo, was there.
Why did you not vote for Buhari then?
I didn’t vote for him because I saw what was going to happen, and leaders of the church in this country knew my stand and why I took that decision. And now, I am being justified, yes I saw it coming. My religious content was huge, the president then would go to churches, go to crusades and address people, and then the Muslims would do their own quietly in the mosques, and I said this is dangerous, and now it has become more dangerous; Christian brother versus Muslim brother. In fact, we have never been as divided along religious line as we are right now. I really find it shameful to say Christians do this, Muslims do that, but I see that we are in a country where the forces of centripetalism should be at work than those of centrifugalism. We should see how we can unite our people; and not use religion to destroy them. All the best books I have today are written by the Emir of Dubai on Development. Development knows no religion, the Emir of Dubai has developed Dubai, I like to read about development as a preacher. And when I read that book, I get vision. You see, at a stage, one begins to feel oppressed, and I have never been like this before. This particular president, Muhammadu Buhari has brought religion and ethnicity sectionalism to a level, and these are almost destroying the nation, I hold him responsible, and Nigerians need to hold him responsible for anything because he knows, he has followers and the followers are afraid to talk to him. Sycophants everywhere. In fact, he has failed woefully, I have no apology about it at all. You see people under him dancing to the bad music he has produced because there must always be a party. In a party you prepare all the food, then the music is not okay, people will still dance. Buhari has produced bad music, and good people and bad people are dancing to it.
What steps do you think Christians should take to protect themselves against the attack on the church and clerics?
In the Hobbesian world, we talk about society of those days, the state of nature where life was short, brutish and nasty, which we call the Hobbesian state of nature, we have come to that stage. And when things go like that, the National Security Adviser is telling us to be security conscious, telling us to secure Abuja, so that Abuja does not fall, O God! Where are we? My advice is this, yes we should be security conscious. We are security conscious and then if one hundred people on bike with guns come to your village, how can you fight back? We have security forces, many from the army, police, civil defence, 800,000 to one million armed people in this country, where are they?
What do you think is responsible for the security lapses in Nigeria?
Well, I have come to understand that our security operatives are helpless, they are not motivated, so, I can’t blame them. The bandits are not more than 100,000 and our forces are over a million combined, including immigration, customs and the rest who are normally armed. I said sometime ago when there were clamour for change of the Service Chiefs that I had no objection. Even if you bring American Service Chiefs to be in charge with that kind of leadership we have, things will be the same. Our soldiers are not motivated to fight, the love for their father land is not put in them. Tobi Amosun who won gold recently, achieved I was saying, it is her effort. Then when Chioma Ajunwa who won gold in Long Jump years ago, when they interviewed her, how do you feel over Tobi Amosun, she said that girl has been suffering, then found her way. She is on scholarship in US, our top athletes are there in American universities, struggling, then after honour to the nation, you come out to say, our girl, which girl? She is not your girl. Now, for you to go and fight and die you must be motivated, how can I go to fight against a superior weapon, when billions on naira that was voted to buy weapon. El- Rufai has been saying they know where these Boko Haram are, and the president of a whole country, who enjoys being in power alone, feeling good about being in power, is there doing little or nothing about it. That is where the problem is. When Obasanjo was there, the security forces dealt with Odi and Zaki Ibiam in Benue State. I am not saying he did it well because he over reacted, but in the cases of Boko Haram, terrorists, bandits, the man in power refused to act.
There is an insinuation that the 9th Assembly under Ahmad Lawan is an appendage of the executive, juxtapose it against the purported plan to impeach the president, what is your thought on this?
I want us to talk about the Senate President himself. You see from nowhere, when they were fighting for APC ticket, from nowhere he entered the race, and you could see those behind him, they were the candidates of the APC National Chairman, Adamu Abdullahi, now Adamu Abdullahi was put there by the president, so I said, eh, this must be Buhari’s candidate. So all things being equal he may pick the ticket, now before the governors rose against him, before his fellow Northern rulers would rise up and say not you, then there must be something about him as far as leadership is concerned. There is more than we know about the man’s leadership ability. They rose up and they met Buhari and said no way, at that time things got scattered. It was that time they were forced to begin to think democratically, and now Asiwaju clinched the ticket with a huge gap. What I am saying is that there is something about the Senate President that smells like lack of competence, that is why his fellow Northerners said he can’t be president. All Senators across party line met in a closed-door executive session and said they are going to give Buhari six weeks ultimatum to do something on the situations of Nigerians or face impeachment. And then Senate President, I don’t know if he got phone call somewhere, after agreeing with his fellow senators over what they planned to do , backs out within two minutes. You see , I like a vibrant Senate. When Tinubu and his group were there as vibrant opposition I liked it, there should be an opposition because the masses have been pauperized, dehumanized, they can’t talk again, just give me food and then I will vote for you, but if there is a section of the elite that can criticize, let them talk, like Lord Acton said: ‘Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.’ Under Obasanjo and Jonathan the civil society, opposition and politicians were active. But when the present administration came in, all the groups were swallowed; no one talks again. You saw how Bukola Saraki’s Senate tackled Buhari in his first tenure, look at Tambuwal under Jonathan, Obasanjo was served with impeachment notice, isn’t it; he was threatened by PDP. So, that is how democracy should be. Politics is not a church, it is not Sunday school; there should be vibrant opposition. But the present Senate has failed to provide vibrant opposition. In fact, I weep for this country.
From the way things are going, is Nigeria a failed country?
Is like asking is a man who has full blown AIDS whether he is sick? He has gone above the level of HIV, full blown AIDS on his death bed, whether he is sick. It is like that. Look at the parameters of a failed state. We met all of them. Look at the security, my God, and I say this is one of the worst nations to live on earth. Security is one of the worst. Now look at economy, when I was to buy my first car in the 80s , Brand new Renault was N7,200, brand new Mecedez Benz car went up to N24,000 and people were crying. But when you go to the US, you do that with a N1,000 return ticket, the Naira has completely lost its value, just like the Dutch Mark , after the first World War. So, in terms of economic development, nothing to write home about, price of foodstuff is nothing to write home about, the poor are struggling to survive and many dying of poverty. As a pastor, I know what we are passing through in the church, a lot of our resources go into taking care of the poor. Survival, employment, infrastructure, name them are nowhere to be found. So, what I am saying is that it’s a completely failed state. Completely failed state, yes there is some pockets of what you may call development, but what is development, that is another definition entirely, there may be one or two shining light, from perhaps one or two state governments, but I am talking about this Federal Government and the day, I have said that the day this president will hand over power, that day, whoever wins is not even my concern, that day I will throw a party. I have said it long ago. That is how serious it is, I will throw a party. So, it is a failed state.
In the face of what is happening in Nigeria, do you think there is need for a revolution to take place in the country?
When you talk of revolution, you find out that in Nigeria, they bring religion and ethnic factor to divide the youth. You see, it always comes in. It is what I call DART, divide and rule tactics. So, to have that kind of revolution in Nigeria, you see we are socialized by the elite, but like the EndSARS protest that took place, it is something. Now in England of those days, when the people were being pauperized by the ruling elite, the peasants and the poor were really dealt with. Then at a stage some of them came up and revolted, and in that revolt they were almost driving away the leaders from London. Then when the government rose up, the leader was caught and was executed. But now the people said, so we can even revolt? But before then, they didn’t know they had the power to revolt. So, after that pockets of revolt started coming up, the government became so sensitive and started responding to their needs. So, the reform you see in England today of children without money being able to go to school, were because of previous revolts of those days. The EndSARS was a message, but unfortunately since then, things have not improved at all. A government thinks, when the people rise up the way of the EndSARS period, but that does not happen in Nigeria. I said wait for Buhari, he never does anything wrong, he is the messiah, he sees himself as the messiah. Can Jesus do something wrong before Peter, can he? Can Peter teach Jesus? Can Matthew teach Jesus, no, so he is the real messiah, he sees himself as the messiah. So, that is where we are right now. He is not a messiah, he is a fellow Nigerian like you and I, I have to believe as such and he has these few months to change, because I have said that this man cannot change, right from the first term, I said watch out, the few thousands of people that we can influence to vote in our ministry, I said vote this way, even if we don’t win, vote this way. This is a government that has put many governors in trouble, but they can’t talk, when you talk they see you as an enemy. I know there are many governors in his party who don’t like what he is doing, but can’t talk, for the sake of political unity and not to hurt their interests, but they know in their heart, the governors I see here are by far more intelligent than him. I can tell you that every governor and minister in Nigeria right now can run the country better than Buhari. In fact, we are in greater trouble, unless he wakes up this remaining period that is left for him.
What is your reaction on the current ASUU strike?
It is quite unfortunate. In fact, I was to make a placard and T-shirt for myself and my wife to go to the street in support of the ASUU strike. We could see that primary school has been destroyed. Today, nobody who earns N50,000 a month will be able to take his child to a public primary school. Secondary school system has also been destroyed. In some schools, about 500 pupils use one toilet. Many of the teachers cannot speak good English, so people are taking their children from public primary schools to private primary and secondary schools. Now , the university education has also been destroyed, and people take their children to private universities. So, I think, ASUU is fighting for the whole educational system whereby our children can finish from the universities in Nigeria and go out to the US or UK and get a job. Right now they cannot, because many of them are not competent. I had people who passed through us and went abroad to study, but could not meet up. So, the entire education system has failed completely. Go to our universities now, look at their toilets and compare them to the universities in the ’70s. The central cafeteria of the University of Ife in those days was like a three or four star hotel, everything was in order. With 10 kobo in the morning you have nine slices of bread, with an egg, with either coffee as breakfast. That is as much as you can take, or tea or beverage etc. With 20 kobo, one will eat either Eba, Semovita, or Amala with different kind of soup, two heavy chunks of meat with ice-cream for lunch. Then during dinner, fruit must accompany it. But now, the whole system has crumbled. So every right thinking Nigerian should support the overhauling of the educational system. Look at in the US, my grandchildren who are there attend public primary school. There is no need to go to private primary school because they are well taken care of. So, every right thinking Nigerian should support the ASUU strike. The president said enough is enough, and thereafter, nothing happened. Now, I am telling him president enough is enough.
Could you comment on the performance of Governor Babajide Sanwo-Olu of Lagos State?
Well, you heard me say that any of the governors can do better than Buhari, now the problems of Lagos are huge. It is said to be one of the worst cities to live in the world, but I am not going to use that to rate the performance of the governor. The state has produced the most intelligent set of governors, this is my own assessment. When Tinubu came, he was intelligent, Fashola, Ambode and now Sanwo-Olu. I listen to Sanwo-Olu and he speaks intelligently. You see all the problems of Nigeria are being heaped on Lagos, so for these intelligent men to perform and get things in order, is not easy at all. All the poor from my place, from your place and the North are coming here , they wear trousers and look like educated people. So, it is compounding the problem. To plan and get Lagos out of the mess is not easy. When they criticize the governor of Lagos State, I like to be fair as a man of God, I don’t want to say evil of someone who doesn’t deserve that kind of a name, evil. This is the way I see it. Lagos is like American New York, everybody comes in every year; and all the problems are being imported into the state. One of the governors, I think Fashola, was talking about creating a night economy, that means even when everybody has gone to bed, people are still buying and selling. But now with the security problem all over the country, including Lagos, that can’t happen.