One of the conveners of the Nigerian Indigenous Nationalities Alliance (NINAS), Prof Yusuf Turaki, has given reasons achieving nation building and national integration in Nigeria has been a difficult task over the years.
In an interview with VINCENT KALU, he noted that “historically, and even today, the generality of Nigerians and the political culture of Nigeria have favoured the promotion of sub-national values and interests. He asserted that the country can never make a meaningful progress unless it produces transformational political leaders.
Turaki, a Professor of Theology and Social Ethics, noted that presently, Nigeria does not have an acceptable national identity that all Nigerians can identify with, and so can hardly be patriotic and loyal to Nigeria as a sovereign country
Ethnicity and religion highly defined the 2023 general elections. Why do you think this was so?
The political, religious, economic and regional policies, administrative practices and attitudes of especially the past Buhari Regime came to bear upon the 2023 elections. The endemic and massive corruption within the government institutions, terrorism, banditry, kidnappings and other criminal activities of the non-state actors provided the corrupt moral values and unjust social institutions that determined the dynamics and conduct of the 2023 elections.
All these negative social forces and powers drove Nigerians into invoking ethnicity, religion and region as sure and secure centres of sub-national identity and not the national values. Sub-national values, institutions and interests undermined patriotism and nationhood. So far, Nigeria is yet to develop and enthrone a national ethic that can moderate the excesses of the sub-national values, which are embedded in ethnicity, religion and region.
A national ethic is the national ethical structure, which should be formulated from acceptable national values, standards, ideals, laws and a code of conduct that moderates the attitudes, behaviours and social practices of all Nigerians.
A national ethic when developed should replace the current state of powerful and divisive negative sub-national values and interests as generated by Nigeria’s primal social factors, such as, ethnic nationalities, religious, cultural and regional groupings in Nigeria. Each of these groups generates its own values and interests that are at variance and are also not harmonised to create a new national common-ground values and interests to guide and moderate the attitudes, behaviours and social practices of all Nigerians.
At present, Nigeria does not have a developed and an acceptable national identity that all Nigerians can identify with and be patriotic and loyal to Nigeria as a sovereign country, neither does it have a merged and harmonised national social unity of all Nigerian peoples. What is on ground are the divisive groups that seek to protect, promote, project, defend, or impose their sub-national values and interests upon the rest of Nigerians, either peacefully or violently. There is nothing wrong with human diversity, for this is a creational norm. What is wrong is human corruption of diversity. Also, there is nothing wrong with each group seeking to protect its ethnicity, identity, history, religion, culture, and ancestral land, among many others. It is only wrong when these sub-national values go against the spirit of nationhood, citizenship and national harmony, unity and peaceful-co-existence. Historically, and even today, the generality of Nigerians and the political culture of Nigeria have favoured the promotion of sub-national values and interests, thus making nation building and national integration a difficult task. Nigerians are yet to develop positive national values, thus making a way for the emergence of a national ethic. Currently, Nigeria is being torn apart by these sub-national values, interests and forces, and the current political culture is not helping matters, but provides a platform and a negative ideology of chronic ethnocentrism, primordialism, regionalism, religious and cultural bigotry and endemic corruption. These are the sub-national values and interests that have held this country hostage, thereby making Nigeria an under-developed state.
The task that lies ahead is the construction of the Nigeria Ethical Structure. Nigeria needs a new national political culture and practice to replace the British colonial political structure that was built upon these three major primordial social factors, namely, ethnicity, religion and region.
Almost 63 years of our independence and 53 years after the civil war, when do we get to the level where your faith and where you hail from will not be a determining factor in who gets elected and appointment into certain position?
Nigeria is yet to produce a crop of transformational political leaders, but is being held back by politicians, bureaucrats and technocrats who have been nurtured, moulded and socialised in the negative sub-national values of ethnicity and primordialism, religion and cultural bigotry, and regional and sectional sentiments.
Faith,and ethnic and regional factors can only cease to be the determinant factors where human values of equality, justice, equity, freedom and rights are practised by the Nigerian citizens. Anything short of this, we are still wallowing in the Stone Age of primitivism and jahiliyya. Nigeria is still being controlled by crude sub-human values.
When will these primordial sentiments that we have enthroned into our polity end?
There is one eternal and non-negotiable human factor that can deal a deathblow to all primordial sentiments, and this human factor is the Act and Fact of Human Creation. This very primordial and original human factor preceded everything that humans have ever created or invented. First and foremost, all human beings are created by God. This creational factor levels all humans who should stand in solidarity with each other, regardless.
It is interesting to note that religion, culture, philosophy and science came after the act and fact of creation. Thus, creational morality and ethics preceded religion, culture, philosophy or science as human activities. Humanity is primarily responsible to humanity, not on the basis and dictates of religion, culture, philosophy or science, but on the primacy of creation. Religion, culture, philosophy and science are social facts that came after creation. For this reason, they have moral mandate of confirming God and creation.
Our primal responsibility to fellow human beings is based on this act and fact of creation by God. Some religions and cultures teach their adherents to discriminate, to kill and to segregate. Some philosophies and sciences teach human beings to deplete the earth, to treat fellow human beings as mere animals or specimens, or to reject its Creator. First, we are responsible to humanity and creation based on creation.
Humanity has been ruined by following the dictates of some religions, cultures, philosophies and sciences that fall short of the ethic of God and creation. Creational ethic precedes all forms of morality and ethics that are created from human common sense and perhaps spirit beings. Creational ethic is a universal moral principle that can critique human expressions and practices of religion, culture, philosophy and science.
Those who do not believe in God might have relied on only creation or on their own human common-sense ethic or scientific humanism.
Religions, cultures, philosophies and sciences have the divine role and function of affirming, protecting, defending and promoting the wellbeing of all humanity and creation. If the values generated by these social factors do not agree with God and creation, then, certainly their sources are only of the inferior human common-sense knowledge, or the counterfeit knowledge of spirit beings.
All human beings, races, ethnic, religious and language groups have a common primal ancestry. This very social fact is the most important basic human core value. Indeed, it is the foundation of human relations, equality, freedom, justice, peace and unity. The lack of recognising, respecting and embracing this basic human core value by all people groups robs the world and humanity of its basic foundations of peace and unity.
As human beings, we all have the same human nature, identity and dignity. For a human being to feel superior to another is based upon false or counterfeit knowledge, which may lead to self-centeredness and pride. The fact of human common ancestry relativises all human claims of uniqueness or superiority. The lack of this creational understanding that all human beings have a common primal ancestry often leads to discrimination, prejudice, bias, stereotype, and preferential and differential treatment of people.
Are these issues not the reason while as a nation we continue to retrogress, while the other nations are headed to Mars?
Unless Nigerians create a nation ethic that can moderate the excesses of ethnicity, religion and region, they cannot develop as a people and nation. Unless Nigerians change their inherited colonial political values and structures, they will never agree or embark on a united resolve to build a conducive and viable nation. Unless Nigeria produces transformational political leaders whose primary goal and objectives is to transform and develop Nigeria and move it from the Third World to the First World paradigm, backwardness, underdevelopment and crude and primitive divisive and negative ethnic, religious and regional values and interests will continue to be our bane and snares.
Former Kaduna State governor, Nasir El-rufai said that they deceived the Christians over the Muslim-Muslim ticket, that it was for the expansion of Islam in Nigeria. He also said that Christians cannot rule Kaduna again. What is your reaction to this outburst?
Since you brought El-Rufai into this conversation, I will comment accordingly. He is an honest and sincere religious, ethnic and regional bigot. What he said is the exact summary of his rule of Kaduna State as its governor. From day one to the last day in office, he did not say anything that is contrary to his characteristic rule of Kaduna State. What surprises me the most, is the reactions of the general public to what he had said. It looks as if to them he is saying what does not match his rule and actions towards his own created caste of the peoples of Southern Kaduna.
To me the political Ides of March has been cast not by him alone but also by all of his cohorts. The peoples of Southern Kaduna cannot remain in Kaduna State where there are no human values of equality, justice, freedom and rights. The hellish prison into which the peoples have been cast is unbearable of any modern human society. I call on the social researchers to research on what the Kaduna State machinery had done to the peoples even beyond the regime of El-Rufai. The ugly revelations will tell the world that Southern Kaduna must be excised from Kaduna State. Do we have to convince Nigerians of this necessity? Can the likes of El-Rufai be reformed into humanness by embracing the modern human global values of equality, justice, freedom and rights? Iron and clay cannot mix. The naivete and the laissez-faire policies, administrative practices and attitude of the previous regimes and some people have wrongly and mistakenly assumed that a lion and a lamb can stay and live together. The two must be separated. The facts of these are quite obvious and convincing.
I conclude with this statement: Do not be unequally yoked together with those who do not love or hate you or kill you. For what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion has light with darkness? The only best viable, humane and honourable option left for Southern Kaduna is separation from Kaduna State.
Since El-Rufai threw in the garment of religion mixed with politics, let’s speak generally about religion. Those of us who are of religion, we have the weakness of defending our wrongs and bogus claims instead of having a genuine self-criticism, self-evaluation and self-repentance when accused of violating the rights of others or failing to live up to expectations.
Our problem is our inability to have a clear definition of the sources of our religious knowledge and revelations. Sometimes the tasks of religion are confusing whenever religion fuses together both God’s divine mandates and human greed, lust and pride. In matters of religion, we tend not to classify our sources of knowledge and revelation to identify genuine sources from those of false ones; genuine revelation from counterfeit. If religion is to be given the task of promoting the rule of law and social ethics, then there are important steps which religion must take very seriously. First, we need to examine the familiar pitfalls of religions in general.
Many people have opined that Nigeria, at present, is widely divided. How do you want President Bola Tinubu to carry out the healing process?
When Nigerian politicians are unwilling to restructure the unjust and conflict generating structures and values, they usually claim that they do not know what restructuring is all about. President Bola Tinubu is not a novice to Nigerian politics. He knows exactly what to do as an astute progressive politician. It would be presumptuous for me to tell Mr. President what to do publicly in this matter. I prefer sharing my views with the president either in person or through a personal letter.
What’s your view on the removal of subsidy on petrol?
I have no economic knowledge or the facts or realities of oil economics in this area. I am only left with a fact less opinion. As a research scholar, I do not work with opinions.
Godwin Emefiele has been suspended as CBN governor and arrested by the DSS.
Some people are criticising the type of treatment given to Emefiele. What’s your take on this?
I cannot respond to this issue because I do not have facts or realities of this case. I know that journalists love to work with the opinions of peoples on burning issues.
What is your fear for Nigeria?
God is the Supreme Ruler of the universe. He is a God of Law and Order. When human beings fail to live by his law and order, they suffer the consequences. If Nigerians choose to be lawless and chaotic, they’ll suffer for that. Presently, I live in a country where law and order has been replaced by chronic insecurity, crises and conflicts and I know why my country is like that.