By Wilfred Eya
December 5th, 2023 made it exactly 20 years that former Senate President, Dr Chuba Okadigbo, was buried in his hometown, Ogbunike in Oyi Local Government Area of Anambra State. For those who knew the cerebral politician, his death marked the end of an era in the politics of the nation particularly with regards to the doctrine of separation of powers and the independence of the three arms of government.
After two decades of the anniversary of his death, his wife, Senator Margery Okadigbo(Odibeze) in this interview went down memory lane on the life and times of late Oyi of Oyi.
The former Chairman of the Board and Management of the Nigerian National Petroleum Company Limited (NNPC) spoke to some journalists on her experience as Chuba Okadigbo’s widow among other issues.
December 5th, 2023 makes exactly 20 years that your late husband and former Senate President, Dr Chuba Okadigbo, was buried in your hometown, Ogbunike in Oyi Local Government Area of Anambra State. He died on Thursday, September 22nd, 2003. Recently, the 20 year milestone of his passage was well celebrated with a church service attended by the high and mighty in the land. How would you describe these past 20 year period without him. What were the successes the family has achieved, and what are the challenges so encountered. And if l may add, the regrets that you have?
Wow! Like you said, 20 years has been like 20 days, you can even say 20 minutes. But I think the only thing that brings to mind the fact that 20 years has gone, is my youngest son, (Chinedu), who we call ‘Chu’. He was just ten (10) years old when his father, Chuba, died. And today, I see a young man of 30 years old. At times when I see the young man, that’s when I ask myself, when did all this happen (Chuba Okadigbo’s death)? I also ask myself, what happened to my 10 year-old, who used to wrap himself around me? Now, he’s a big boy. So it’s been 20 years of so many things that one cannot lay hands on. Even when I go to the village (Ogbunike, in Oyi Local Government Area of Anambra State) and I go to Chuba’s grave, it’s as if he was just buried last week. (Okadigbo was buried on December 5, 2003). I still don’t see the 20 years, and I would say everything is all to the glory of God, because we’ve had our down moments in these past 20 years. In 20 years, I lost a son (Mr Obiajulu Okadigbo). In 20 years, we lost another son (Mr Pharoh Okadigbo). We’ve lost two sons in 20 years, and to the two sons we’ve lost, we’ve also gained grandchildren. But that is what life is all about. You lose some, you gain some, and that’s the cycle of life. We are not always going to be here from beginning to the end. Even the friends we meet along the road, we also lose them. But at the end of the day, what we have are the memories, and those memories are what we hold on to, and nobody can take those memories away. Not even death can take the memories away, because those memories are just etched in the heart, and that’s what you replay.
What have these memories reminded you in 20 years?
Well, it reminds me of what Chuba stood for all his life. You and I, before now, have had quite a long banter on Chuba Okadigbo, the man, his memory, and what he stood for. So, those are memories. You meet people and they have different versions of Chuba. Even with me, I learn every day about this man who I married. I don’t know him completely. And through other people, I know him, because people have different stories about the man, Chuba Okadigbo. People on the outside have had different relationships with him.
Yes, what actually was on your mind that day (September 25, 2003) when his death occurred, in terms of how you were going to cope with life without him, with the children, and how the future will fare for you and the family? What were the initial fears concerning him?
Well, first of all, with his passing, it was a shock! Chuba actually died on my laps. He put his head on my laps, and that’s where he took his last breath, and that’s in the car, going to the National Hospital in this Abuja. It was a period when the health workers were even on strike. And coming back from the National Hospital, when we put him in the morgue (mortuary), there were some drama, even on that day. When we got to the hospital, and the ambulance opened and the mortuary attendant on duty was told that the man he was going to be receiving that night was Dr. Chuba Okadigbo, the man quickly took off. He simply ran away! They (hospital officials) had to chase him because he said he couldn’t believe it. So that is how Chuba was seen by people, even by the common man. He was larger than life. I mean, the mortuary attendant telling you that it’s not possible that Senator Okadigbo is the one in the ambulance. But that’s what happened, that’s where we were. I, for one, I was in shock! And even at the time, you’ll be talking to me, I’ll be listening, and it gets to a point where half of what you’re saying just goes. Later on, the doctor said I had what they call ‘selective amnesia’.
So I went through all those shocking moments. My hair suddenly went grey. Every follicle of my body went grey, because it was such a shocking experience, and for many years, I couldn’t look down into my lap, because if I looked down, all I saw was his (Chuba’s) head. So I went through all of that, and it was quite traumatic. But I took a look at the young children, and I said to myself: you know, Margery, going forward, your life is now all about your children. You know, these are children who were very attached to their late father, and I just knew I had to step into the shoes of mother and father. That’s what most widows will tell you, and even a widower will tell you. You find yourself playing the role of both parents. And if you have a relationship with your spouse, l mean your partner, where you talk or discuss a lot, especially a lot of those dreams, those programmes that you have for yourselves as a family, you find yourself the last man standing.
So you are so driven, because you want to achieve. It’s like a baton, a relay race. This baton has been handed over to me. It’s now my duty to finish the race, and that’s how I felt, and that has been my driving force for all 20 years. I feel that there’s a baton that’s been handed over to me by my husband, and I must finish that race, and it just doesn’t end with the children. It really extends to grandkids.
Even when my daughter had her babies, I did the cutting of the umbilical cord. So it’s a drive, and you can’t imagine achieving those goals, doing those roles with somebody else, because it’s a programme, it’s like a roadmap that you both set, and you see yourself as that executioner of that roadmap. You must finish it. And until that day when you breathe your last, it’s like you’re in the race alone, so you must finish that race. That’s what 20 years has been.
Did you ever feel intimidated by the enormity of the challenges of raising the kids all by yourself?
In the beginning, like any young widow, you take a look and say to yourself, Oh my God, what happens? Where do I go from here? What do I do? But then there’s a typical American saying that says, don’t get mad, get even. So that drives me, and that’s what I believe has been my success story. What would Chuba want you to do? Those were the things I think about if he was here. What would it be? And the funny thing is that much as everybody saw him as that big, tough guy and all that, he was quite a baby at home. So a lot of times, if things happen, you’ll hear my husband say to me, hey!, how do we handle this? And I’ll be the one to say, wait, hold on. Let’s get to understand what this is all about before we know what to do. How do we handle this? You know, and then he will look at me. I know for a long time his nickname for me was ‘Oxygen’. Then, he would ask, so are you bringing the oxygen to us? And l will say to him, Yes, I’ll give you the Oxygen mask. Just put it on. Let’s go on. So that’s the relationship we had. And he’s a man who allowed me to grow. He encouraged me when I took my baby steps. He was always there. Take the next one. You can do it, he often tells me. You know, so it was just like having another parent or teacher at home. And I had to learn fast. That has always been. I just learned fast. That’s it.
Now, when he came back from the political party rally in Kano, and told you that the police smoked them with a tear gas canister, did you imagine, at that point, especially when he was having that complication, that he would pass away?
No, I didn’t. And the funny thing is that even those who were with him in Kano, he told them not to let me know. So, I didn’t even know he had had that gas spray on him while in Kano, l mean he and former President Muhammadu Buhari, until they came back that day. I was of the impression that he was going to be in Kano for two days, when he came back earlier than planned. All I did get was a phone call to send the cars to the airport to pick him up. So he was coming back earlier than I thought. And when I came back, I asked after him. I came into the house, he was already in his bedroom, he was laying down. I came in, saw him, and he was looking tired. I assume it was just his usual tiredness. And I noticed he had his inhaler next to him.
Was the Oyi’ (Chuba Okadigbo) asthmatic?
Yes, he was. So, l asked him, are you having an asthmatic attack? He said, yeah, something like that. He never told me he had had that encounter in Kano. So it wasn’t until later in the evening that some other people came in. And I think the person who actually gave me an idea of what happened was Senator Sylvanus Ngele. So he was the one who came that evening to know how he was doing and if he was fair. So I was like, what really happened? And without knowing, I got to know that that was really what happened in Kano, that the police sprayed him with teargas canister. So by the next day, his doctor came in to see him and administered medications on him. But later in the evening of that same Thursday, that’s about eight o’clock in the evening, I noticed that he was very restless. You know, taking a turn for the worst. And I quickly put him in the car. Before we got to the National Hospital Abuja, just at the Mabushi roundabout, he gave up.
So, who carries the can? Who’s to be blamed?
Well, these are all the ills of our society, because if we had good emergency facilities, paramedics and things like that, all we needed to do was call an emergency number and they will come to the house to attend to him. At least that’s the first aid treatment before we get to the hospital. Well, that’s not the case here in Nigeria. And all Chuba needed at that point was just oxygen, to at least support him until we get to the airport. Even though, when God says it’s time, it’s time. But heaven helps those who help themselves, too. So that was basically it. For me, being in the car with him, he walked himself into the car and then took a last breath, put his head on my lap and that was it. It was a shock. I’d never seen that. Even at that point, I didn’t even understand that he was gone. It wasn’t until we got to the National Hospital and they took him in, the two doctors who attended to him, Dr. Wada and Dr. Ante, came in and started all their, you know, life is this and that. That was when it dawned on me that indeed something had happened. But even at that, I thought maybe he just had an asthmatic attack, which in the past, he would overcome. Until I came in and saw the whole six foot three of him stretched out. That’s when I knew that clearly life was on a different premise. And it’s been like that. Thereafter, the news of his death was made clear to everybody.
Now, how did you navigate the challenges of assuming both mother and father roles to the children? What were those things that you set your mind that you will achieve as a way of making Chuba to at least realise that he had somebody on ground?
Well, with the children, I think the first thing was their academics. Chuba (Okadigbo) had this strong belief that the greatest legacy you can give a child is a good academic grounding. So I made sure that the children got the very best in terms of education. I can beat my chest today and say, yes, I did that. I sent them to Ivy League schools. I did that. So that legacy was paramount. My husband was not a multi-millionaire but he had his grounding in terms of education. So that much I was determined that the children would have because that was his own idea of giving a child a legacy. So I made sure I achieved that. And if it meant tying one wrapper, I was ready to do it and make sure that the children get that education. And I did that. But of course, there have been other intervening graces of God which made it possible for me to achieve those things. The children have backgrounds of being Americans. So I was able to send them to school, get AIDS grants, whatever that was required. And then they are where they are today because of that determination of pursuing their father’s dream. Chuba always said, if as a University lecturer, he could impart knowledge on other people’s children, then I think he owes it to himself to make sure that his own children get that much and more than he even got from his own parents. So I made sure I did that. The children were paramount in anything I do. And they’re still. Some people say I’m a mother hen. It’s not so much a mother hen, but I believe if you’re there for your children, you give them the grounding they need, your problems will be far less, because when you don’t give the children the time, a time comes when you pay for it. You can never be too busy for your children because that’s the only time you have. You give it to them and then in your own old age, they will have time for you because you gave them your own time.
Your step-children and family in-laws, did they give you trouble, after Chuba?
Well, like any big family, you go through the challenges. You have some members of the family who are older than you who feel they need to tell you what to do. Some tell you, oh, you don’t do it this way, you don’t do it that way. But you must always stay focused on what you and your spouse understand family to be. You don’t leave on someone’s roadmap. You have your own roadmap. And if you follow your own roadmap, you will always end up well. I always tell people that if you become a widow and you had seven cars, seven drivers, seven security personnel and all that when your husband was alive, if you can only afford one car, keep your one car. You’re not impressing anybody. There’s no matter of keeping up with the Joneses. Admire them, but don’t strive to be like them. Don’t kill yourself to be like them. So, if by the time they talk, had he (late husband) left with all his pomp and pageantry? I look at myself and say, look, Margery, be yourself. That’s where exactly I’m going to be because I have a focus. I have a roadmap. So I had to prune myself to be able to say this is where I find myself today. I’m not in competition with anybody. The only competition I have is with myself. I set my own goals and I strive to meet up with those goals. I’m not following anybody’s roadmap. Family will be there. There are people who will support you. There are people who feel that, oh, you’re swimming and wallowing in it (husband’s wealth). I say, sorry, it’s not for you. It’s for the children. And I always use this opportunity to say to men, there is no way any wife you leave as a widow is going to leave your children and do other things. Because you hear men say, oh, if I leave it (wealth) to her, her siblings are not going to do anything for my children. They will use it for their own children. It is only an irresponsible mother that will see her children, leave them and be doing other things. So men should encourage their wives. Make them part of your success story because at the end of the day, they will be the ones to continue where you stopped. They will take that pattern and continue that race. It’s important. This is my appeal for the men. Get your wives involved in what you’re doing. Nobody can leave your legacy other than your wife and your children. They will live your legacy for you.
l ask again, Chuba’s older children, did you have challenges with them?
Oh, well, yeah! There were challenges, obviously. It’s something I don’t even like to talk about because for me, I lived with the man (Chuba Okadigbo). I know his likes and his dislikes. There’s a difference between wife and children, even my own children. You can’t play the role of a wife. You can’t play the role of a husband. You’ll be the child that you are. So I just refused to join issues with children. I don’t do that because it has nothing to do with whether you’re their mother or their stepmother. Even mothers who have children have issues with their own children when the husbands die. So I don’t want to say, oh, because I’m their stepmother, that is why. If you look for a why, you will find it because, you will find plenty ‘becauses’. I don’t wait to look for those ‘becauses’ because they’ll always be there.
So I do what I feel is right within my own understanding of right. I also try to mirror myself in the right as to what does the Bible say. And I always believe in this thing that to who much is given, a lot is expected. I live by that rule. If you do not do that that is expected of you, the little or the much that is given to you will be taken away from you. We have an Igbo adage which says, when you rejoice in other people’s successes, your own success will come and in ten folds. So I believe in that. It’s not a matter of a winner takes all because, I don’t do that. There’s not a because in my dictionary because if you look for it, you will find it.
Like you said earlier, two incidents happened to the family within this period of 20 years after Oyi (Chuba Okadigbo). Of course, these occurrences were very devastating. How did you handle them? Were they things that you envisaged would happen within the period? What lessons would you say you’ve learnt? And to what extent would you say that it further eroded your faith in life?
I take it that you refer to the loss of the two sons.
Yes, the death of Pharoah and Obiajulu Okadigbo, your sons, so to say!
Well, those losses were very, very painful. Pharaoh is someone that I married his father when he was just twelve years old. So Pharaoh was my son. Obiajulu was my biological son. And Obiajulu and Pharaoh grew up together, so they’re very close too. But losing both of them and their father was so traumatizing. Let’s just say that after Chuba, Obiajulu’s death came first. And I remember years before then when the Loyola Jesuit children had the plane crash in 2006, l mean the Sosoliso Plane crash, I went with another friend of mine who had children in Loyola to see one of the parents who lost her children. And this woman lost three children in that crash in one day. Three children, you can imagine that? And those were the only children she had, just three of them. I went there. I didn’t know her.
The friend I went with, one of the children, the deceased child, was in the same class with her daughter. And we came in, a lot of people were there, and I was just looking at this woman. I just said, I have three children, my own children, myself. I’m looking at this woman and saying, how does anybody bear this, to lose three children in one day? The only way you can get three children back is that you have triplets. And even at that, you have them as babies, not as the college students that they were. And the investments you have done in them all those years, not investment in terms of financial but emotional. Those moments of ‘mommy, I hurt myself. Oh mommy,
I don’t want to eat this’, all those memories. How do you lock them up and throw it away in just one plane crash? I couldn’t understand it. So I was just looking at this woman and saying, how can the heart take this much pain? It didn’t make sense to me. And that lived with me over the years until I found myself with the loss of one child. And I played it back and said to myself, one child and the feeling is like this, how did this woman, years ago, feel with the loss of her three children in just one day? No sickness! She probably took them to the airport, kissed them all goodbye, have a lovely term in school and all that. And then the next thing you get is a phone call that these children are dead, not just dead, but crashed into bits. I said to myself, how could any mother deal with this? There’s so much to be thankful to God in my case. And at that point, all that I could think of was to say thank you, God, for, first of all, making me a mother, because there are women who don’t have that opportunity.
But I have the opportunity to be a mother. There are women who are going from pillar to post, having miscarriages, going through IVFs to have one child. But God, you gave me this child for 30 years because Obi (late Obiajulu Chuba Okadigbo) was 30 years-old when he left. And all I kept saying with my rosary in my hand was, God, I thank you for the opportunity of looking after your child, because every child belongs to God, including you and I. And when that time comes, you realize that you’re nothing but a surrogate. I must give up what God has given me. And that, for me, was the ultimate lesson in understanding what sacrifice is all about. Then when Pharaoh’s death happened, same month of May, I said, God, there’s really so much that the heart can take. So I’ve taken it in the strong Christian faith that there’s a time to be born and a time to die.
For every season, there are different times.
That’s basically what this life is all about. It’s a mystery.
I want to refer to an interview you granted sometime ago in 2012, where you said, that the day a woman gets married, that she should prepare for widowhood, something like that. And vice versa. So what philosophy were you trying to pass?
Well, I know that there is no playbook for marriage. In fact, I remember some old women will say that on the day you marry, different gifts are coming in different packages, in different sizes. There’s always that one gift box. At the end of the day, the couple go home to go and open them, and that box is their marriage box. That is where you see your good, the bad, the ugly, everything concerning your marriage is in that gift box. So you now decide when you open that box, to take out the ones you don’t want and throw them away. The ones you want, you keep, and then together you sort out that gift box for it to work for you in that marriage. So when I said that, I think it’s an interview I had maybe five years or so into widowhood. And it was philosophical in the sense that unless the couple die on the same day, one will always outlive the other, because it would be a disaster, a tragedy to have a couple die on the same day, leaving their young children, or even old children, because children are children. So I said, that the day you get married, obviously, even in church, as you take your vows, it’s said that for better, for worse, until death do us part. So, it’s something, a vow you have taken, even before God, that when you do get married, one of you must go first. And then the question will then be: what does the surviving spouse do to make sure that those dreams that you both had don’t die? It’s always a difficult task, like any race, it’s always difficult to start, but when you start and you pick up momentum, you find yourself running to the finish line. So, I guess that’s basically what inspired that comment, that thought. The day you marry is the day you sign up to be a widow or a widower.
But in between this 20 years, the family also experienced happy moments. And that was when your daughter, Ego, got married. It was well celebrated and so many dignitaries and friends of the Okadigbos graced the occasion…
Yeah, it was one of those sweet moments in our family from 2003 when Chuba passed. Again, like I said, we’ve had sad periods in 2003, 2018, 2021. We’ve had all manner of tragedies, sad moments. So, when my daughter got married, it was a different experience. And it wasn’t just my own husband. I’ve had my two brothers-in-law who also passed on in that period. I mean the one before Chuba and the one after him: Edmund and George Okadigbo. So it’s been one tragedy after the other. So we had three of them. Every time we go to the village, Ogbunike, Edmund (Chuba’s elder brother) is always the one there. So, Ego’s.traditional marriage in the village was like a beckon of light for us in the family. And it was something to be celebrated. It was a good time. It is also amazing that a lot of Chuba’s friends were so supportive for that traditional marriage. A lot of people, the outpouring was just immense. People were coming in from different angles, some people sponsored the catering, some sponsored the drinks for the marriage ceremony. It was just awesome. To be honest, people’s outpouring was just too much. And all this came from friends, his own generation. They were everywhere. I mean, you had people like Ochendo Simon Okeke (former Chairman, Police Service Commission, PSC). Ochendo said he was not missing the event for anything. People like Senator Roland Owie was there. I mean, people just came in. It was so amazing. You know, all Chuba’s friends wanted to be a witness to the event because Ego is really his first daughter, so to speak, getting married. Even though she’s the third, but she was the first of the girls to be married. So, that was something of a happy moment for our family. And then subsequently, the grandchildren have since come from all the girls and the boys. Pharoah left three children. Sometimes, it’s like one would want to say, oh, Chuba, you’re missing out because there’s so much fun going on with the grandchildren now coming. But I’m sure that somewhere in all of this, he’s very much part of it.
Okay. Let’s look at the Chuba Okadigbo Foundation. What is happening with that project?
The Foundation is not actually where I want it to be. And the reason for that has been the distractions that come with living in the country as we know it. We had a kick off, if you remember. That was in 2008 or was it 2009. We had an event at the Shehu Yar’Adua Centre here in Abuja, and that time, the former president (Umaru Musa Yar’Adua) was at the event. A lot of people were at the event then. But there was a lull in 2010 when l started my political career. One year after that, it became one roller coaster. I went to the elections. We were in court for one year before I finally got my seat back in 2012. Then, my son, Obiajulu’s health issue started. I found myself always traveling, junketing up and down; wanting to always be there for doctor’s appointments. And we struggled with this thing for quite a number of years until 2016 when we thought we are taking the turn and then we came back this time around but his case worsened until he passed in 2018. So, that kept me always out of the country. And in 2019, my daughter, Ego, got married. 2020, COVID came, did its own shutdown. So, all these things were breakers in the process. And of course, a lot of people who were on the foundation also passed. We lost Senator Gbenga Aluko. We lost Senator J.K. Waku. So many things, you know, came and upset quite a lot of things about that Foundation. So, I now felt we needed to look at things there again, we need to revisit the foundation membership. Chief Dubem Onyia himself is most of the time out of the country. And we just needed to revamp the Foundation and then replace some of our deceased foundation members.
Are you considering putting all these lessons and experiences of yours into a book, you know, at least to serve as a ready made handbook for widows and several other people who may find themselves in your shoes?
Yes, l am. It’s important for women to know and for them to realise that they’re not in it alone. As women, we feel vulnerable. We keep saying, oh, it’s happening to me. It’s not happening to another woman. That’s not true. It happens to all of us. I always tell people. And let me go back to a story.
When my husband passed, and I remember the day after the burial, the Umuadas in the village now said they needed to cut my hair. It was some big deal, you know. My cousin, Uzo, came to me and said, hey, no. Why should they cut your hair? She insisted nobody would cut my hair. I said, Uzo, let me ask you a question. When I go to wash my hair, I go to the salon. I wash my hair, I do whatever the style is. I come back home. As I come back, even if my husband, Chuba doesn’t notice, I will walk here and there and I’m like trying to say to him, is it that you haven’t seen that (my new hair style)?. I’ve done something new to my hair. You know, until Chuba now says, oh, and I’ll say, hey, so you’ve now noticed. And we will laugh over it. So I said to my cousin (Uzo), this same hair, what am I keeping it for? The person who will admire the hair or praise it if l keep it is no more there. Therefore, what am I keeping this hair for? If they want to cut the hair, I’ll be the first person to say no. For me, in my mind, I don’t see the action of Umuada cutting my hair as is traditional as punitive. I have seen it from a different angle, and that’s where we women, we widows begin to see things. Things that you think or other people see as punitive or they want to use to punish you, you turn it against them. So l came and sat down calmly for them to cut my hair. Everybody was like, eh, is this for real? It was at that point I said to them, do I take the first snip (of the hair cut)? They said, no, that I can’t do it, that somebody has to do it, but I can have somebody on my side of the family do it. So l sent for my cousin, Uzo. She’s late now, funny enough. The same Uzo who was opposed to my hair being cut. I said, Uzo, come, you are the one who is going to take the first snip. She took the scissors and took the first snip. I disarmed them. So that thinking, that they are cutting my hair, to them, was a kind of punishment.
Because, of course, people go into the fetish things. They say, oh, they will use your hair to go out and do something fetish. Well, with me, sorry, it’s nothing like that. As soon as they finish, I just put down the wrapper and gather my hair and fold everything together, tie it and burn it. So where is the punishment then? Women must turn every punitive or disadvantage situation or whatever into advantage. When I went to the Senate, the same seat my husband sat on was the seat l sat. It occurred to me. And I was having this discussion with a Senator from Anambra State, I said to him, you know, come to think of it. I am born an Omambala North from Onitsha. I am married to an Omambala North man from Ogbunike in Oyi Local Government Area. In fact, I am more an Omambala person than even my husband, Chuba, who once sat on the Senatorial seat of Anambra North. So why shouldn’t I go for it? I went to vie for the Senate. I whipped up my father’s side of the story, whipped up my husband’s side of the story, and I made the two sides work for me. And the third factor is that I was a fresh face. Nobody knew me. All they saw was, oh, okay, Chuba’s wife. But they don’t know me. So for them, it was a fresh face. And I took advantage of all three of it and got myself to where I was. But when you get there, it’s not about getting there and sit pretty. You get there and prove that they (Anambra North electorates) had reason, good reason, to have sent you there in the first place. Forget the dynamics of politics and everything, because all those things are factors you cannot regulate, but politics regulates it for you. Again, the issue is: do you have a good PR (public relations)? Do you have a good rapport with the people, with your constituents? Yes. That is what matters. And that is why you will be long term and not just a short term politician. So that works for me. That I relate to my people in a way that they know they have someone.
When that prompting to take a shot at the senate seat of Anambra North came, what gave you that conviction that you will win?
First of all, I think the kind of things that occurred to me and what was actually my campaign slogan and still remains my slogan even as I have sat in other privileged offices is that slogan of to restore the legacy of principled leadership. That was the slogan for my election campaign. And that has been my guiding focus in anything I do. My husband, Chuba Okadigbo, as you already know, was principled. His leadership was principled and for people who didn’t understand it, they saw it as arrogance. It was not arrogance. It was doing things and doing it right.
Standing on the path of right. I don’t care who’s ox is gored; just stand there and speak the truth. I remember when I first started in politics, there’s some things I would say and my Campaign DG (Director General) would call me and say to me, you don’t say those things, and I’m like, what am I supposed to say? Tell them what I know I won’t do. But l will tell him it’s not possible. I have to tell the people (electorates) what I can do. I want to go to bed and live with my conscience. I’m not going to make promises I can’t keep. I have to make promises that I can keep, or promises that I know I’ll have to struggle to keep.
But the one I can’t do, I can’t tell them I can do it. It’s not possible. So, that, for me, was a driving force. I needed to restore that principle of leadership. That was principle. It’s difficult in Nigeria. The temptations are there. Even when you don’t want to slap it in their faces, but you have to be able to say, no, I’m not doing this. This is not me. So, that for me, is what drove me. I just felt that my husband, Chuba, didn’t leave out what I know he wanted to. He didn’t leave it out. No, he didn’t.
Was your contribution to the Health Bill in the 7th Senate part of this principled leadership you talked about?
You know, the health system in the country is too poor. As deputy chairman, Senate Committee on Health in the 7th Senate, l and my chairman then, Senator Ifeanyi Okowa who later became governor of Delta State, were able to put out the National Health Bill. What has Nigeria done with it? That’s a different thing altogether, but we did all that. And we also talked about a percentage of the income of the country going to health, improving the health care system. All this is contained in the National Health Bill. It’s all there. So, we worked all throughout that 7th Senate. It was something that was left in previous Senates. But, in our 7th Senate, my committee was able to put it together and place it on the Senate table for the president’s assent. And he did. So we have a National Health Bill in 2014.
What were the lessons you have learnt within the period of your elective position?
I must say that the one legacy that I will forever cherish is that I’ve made friends across the country. I got to understand Nigeria better. In the Senate, even within the committee, you have people from the different regions or zones. So, it gave me a better understanding of Nigeria and the problems that were man made. A lot of these problems don’t necessarily need to exist because we are one happy country. How you know Nigeria is one and even beyond Nigeria is through football match. Nobody cares about whether you’re from the North, South, West or East. Everybody’s happy, cheering and hailing whoever is the national team. Even when it is not a national team, you will find some people take the side of Chelsea, another one will take the side of Arsenal, another will take the Manchester United. So, what are we fighting and quarreling about? The other day I was watching some of the home videos in this 20 years anniversary of my husband and then he had gone to one of those crisis-ridden areas in the North. He was telling them that there’s nothing like Christian blood or Muslim blood. Nobody’s going to ask you whether it’s a Christian or Muslim blood when you’re doing the blood transfusion. All you want is to keep this person alive. So I learnt in the Senate that we are one, this country is one. We are one happy people. Nigerians are happy people generally. If you travel abroad, go to a Nigerian party, the happening party in the neighborhood there are usually organised by Nigerians. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a Yoruba or Ibo party. They call it Naija party. The acronym is a Naija party. You’re sure to get your jollof rice there. You’re sure to get your Heineken. And Guinness, you’ll get it there, too. So that is what Nigeria is all about. Therefore, most of these problems in Nigeria are man made. And I think it also comes from some people
feeling marginalised, feeling that they’re a less privileged tribe or region not well accommodated and all that. But, like someone once said, what happened to Nigeria we had before all of this? When did it go wrong? What happened? When did we lose it as a nation? And it’s still a question, it’s still a nagging question in the minds of people when they get together.
Let’s talk about the NNPC Limited where you were board chairman. The place is generally seen as a house of corruption. What really has changed while you were there as chairman of the corporation. Would you say that your tenure in NNPC brought some sanity?
I would say again, just like in the case of my going to the Senate, that it was just a destiny call. Destiny call, because not even as a young graduate, going through law school, you apply for where you want to work. And I never saw myself applying to work in an oil industry, talk more of sitting as chairman of board of NNPC. That was never my ambition. So, that’s why exactly I’m not an engineer. I’m a lawyer by background, even though my profession allows me flex into any situation I find myself. But with NNPC, I didn’t see it coming.
Not at all. I didn’t see it coming when my name was announced as a director, first of all, and then as events, went on, I found myself again being mentioned as the chairman of the board. That one I didn’t even see it coming at all. I didn’t even go to bed, wake up and say, oh, yes, it’s possible. No, I didn’t even see that coming. It just came. And in this situation, you find yourself philosophical enough to say it is by the grace of God. There’s no way l dreamt of being there. I didn’t lobby for it. I didn’t go anywhere. It just happened. And this is like something anybody would imagine that you would have lobbied. You don’t. It didn’t happen. But with NNPC, we were going to transit from the NNPC corporation to NNPC Limited. We had the Petroleum Industry Act (PIA), which was the constitution, the roadmap to achieving this. Now, the PIA clearly says that you have 18 months within which to transit from the corporation to a limited company. And this was happening in January when we assumed office. The board was put in place by the then President, Muhammadu Buhari. Now, I took a look at it and said to myself that 18 months will take us to somewhere about February, March or even April of the next year. And we brainstormed about it. We said to ourselves, we have 18 months. Yes!. But what about our financial year? Where do we slot it? Because it has to be a financial year. Either we’re doing a mid term or we’re doing an end of year. So that was part of the drive that we all had. And we gave ourselves a target. We said let’s try and meet this target as a board. We gave ourselves the target. And believe me, we made it in six months. I may be ignorant of the workings of the Oil Corporation but I have done my talk, I’ve done my research and I’m yet to see any company that has had 19 board meetings in one year. That’s what we had in NNPC Limited. We were burning the candle top bottom, to get that six months achieved. And we had a fantastic consulting group. We also had a good management team that were ready to work with me on that. So it was a family but we had to be guided by the corporate governance practices. We had to be guided by that. We walked, burnt the midnight lamp until finally in July (2023), we were able to birth the new NNPC Limited. It came with its own challenges. Even amongst us, we were like, are we sure we’re going to make it. But we persevered. It was a lot of work. We stayed guided by the corporate law of governance. It was important that we did that. So board meetings were no easy feat in one year. It’s like you’re doing these things and you don’t even realize that you’re so sucked into it. You’re doing it and you’re trying very hard to do your best. There are times when I had my meltdown, and I’m asking myself, who gave you this job? What are we doing here? But it was a fast learning process. And then, sometimes you find yourself on the international stage talking about something. You’ve had a crash programme, but the words come and then you find that really, it’s nothing but the grace of God. So I feel that, sometimes, we have our own angels, teleguiding and putting the words into our mouth for us to say things and all that. And those moments as human beings, we should never take them for granted, because you may come out and say, Oh, I’m a superstar, I’m so intelligent. No, no, no, no, no. Something is behind all of that, l mean your success story.
In essence, you didn’t observe the alleged corruption in the NNPC Corporation that people see from the outside?
Well, I tell you honestly, that even me as a Nigerian on the outside did see the NNPC as a place riddled with corruption. In fact, l would join you and others who may hold this view about NNPC to say that yes, it’s a “house of corruption”. But when you go there, as l did in my capacity as board member and chairman of the corporation, you will know that those fingers people are pointing at the NNPC are also pointing to them. Now, as part of that “corruption”, as Chairman of the Board of that NNPC Limited, one also have to sit up and make sure that things work well there. And, a lot of what people call corruption in NNPC, as far as I’m concerned, just has to do with the way things are done. And that is where you have the streamlining for due process. Sometimes, and even now, I read in the newspapers or hear that, oh, NNPC is hiring staff, that they’re secretly hiring people. And
there’s no such thing. It’s totally fake story! So the wrong impression anyone who reads such falsehood will get is that the NNPC is so corrupt and too secretive. That’s an example of the corruption tag on the corporation in the minds of the public. You won’t know the truth unless you’re in the inside. You see, there’s a process on how these things are done. And like I said to you earlier, the media don’t help in all these wrong narratives because there’s no investigative journalism being done anymore. There’s no investigative journalism. It’s like copy and paste. Everybody’s facing the same story. Nobody’s going to ask, is it really true? Nobody’s asking those questions. If you say the refineries haven’t worked, yes, they haven’t worked, but there’s a process on how to get them to work. It’s like you take your car to the mechanic, your brake light is showing when you got there, but before you know it, the mechanic is telling you that your fan belt is weak or no more working. He’s also telling you that your engine oil is low. He’s telling you that even your car windscreen wiper also is weak too. But that’s not why you went to his workshop. You went there because your brake light pad was showing red light on the dashboard. So it is with the oil refinery. Some of those things (petrol refineries) have been moribund for years. On the eyesight, I can tell you that all we need to do on those refineries is to change this ring or change this piston or change whatever; it is all Engineering technical terms. But when you open up the refinery plant itself and begin to see the real problems, you will be shocked. So, what do you do? Therefore, if, as Mr President, you gave me or the NNPC Board and Management a timeline of one year or six months to turn-around the refinery and the media just blow it up in their news headlines, when you actually open up the refining machine plant, you find that it’s no longer the six months or the one year mandate. You discover that more things have gone bad with the plant. What do I do? How do you go back to the public to tell them that the one year or six months is no longer feasible? And probably you had a budget of 10 Naira. Now you’re giving me a problem of 15 or 20 Naira to solve with 10 naira. How do you reconcile that? When you begin to ask for those variations, these are the areas that people come up and say NNPC is a house of corruption. If I say there are 5 piston rings of the refinery plant to change, and I’m going to change piston ring 1, 3, and 4, you may find that 4, you’ve changed it. Performance becomes optimum. But the other rings that are not changed, you have to change them because otherwise, it’s useless changing the ones you’ve done for you to get an overall performance, optimal performance. You find that you have to, but that was not in your budget.
So you come in and say, oh, it’s corruption. So some of these things are a bit over bloated in the media.
Corruption in a corporation like that is something like you have a job to do but in a typical fashion you delay on it, you drag on it because you’re expecting somebody to come say thank you. That is corruption. You do your job. That’s your job. That’s what you’re paid for. Not for you to go waiting and dragging things. So, something that may cost us 10 naira, you end up dragging work on it until the cost escalates from what was budgeted for the repair work. NNPC had all kinds of litigation cases, cases that should have been sorted out of court. And that was one area where I came in to get these things resolved, maybe because of my legal background. I said, as much as possible, we should sort some of these cases out of court. I was taught in law school that lawyers don’t lose cases, the person who lost case is your client, not you. Because you are ready to go on appeal. And you must be paid. So it is better to settle out of court. Cut off litigation costs. Cut off their aggravation, cut off their unnecessary bitterness, get your clients to face off. A lot of things are resolved from talking.
So that was a way I approached things on the NNPC board because I found out that most of these litigation cases came from wrong contract writing.
And a lot of people who wrote these contracts have since left NNPC but unfortunately have left NNPC with the burdens of those contracts. Some of these contracts are contracts that could have been sorted out for cheaper cost. But by the time you go to court and then the court slams you all the interest rates and charges and what have you, a case of a thousand dollars becomes a case of a hundred thousand dollars. And these are cases that have lingered for 10 or 15 years. The officers that started these cases are no longer in NNPC. They’ve since retired. So why don’t you solve the problem? Those were some of the changes that our board made at the NNPC.
Would you say that your efforts while as Board Chairman of NNPC was appreciated based on the numerous awards and recognitions that came your way?
Well, l think the recognition is something that happened. You are doing what you are doing because you’re inspired to do it and because you believe in what you’re doing and not that you’re expecting anybody to pat you on the back and hail you and all that. You truly want to make a difference in where you find yourself, no matter how small. Even if it’s a chairman of XYZ company that is unknown. You do your best because it is your best that will make XYZ become the XYZ. And, that’s where I tell you that, for me, service was driven by that legacy to restore principled leadership. That has always been my driving force. Not too long ago, I was honored in an amazing way. I mean, to be given a fellowship by the Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators. That’s like you’ve reached your peak when it comes to administration. Again, I was given the honor of being the one to speak on behalf of the other inductees who were being honored on that day. And I told them that no matter where you find yourself, try always to give your very best because you don’t know who is watching. You don’t know who you’re motivating. All you see is that you’re just doing your own thing, but somewhere, somebody is inspired by what you are doing. So for me, the greatest honor too, is when you get recognition from peers. People who probably are even higher than you are, but who accept and say, wow, she’s doing a good job and acknowledge that and honor you for that. I think that’s the biggest honor anybody can have when you get recognized by your peers. It’s a huge thing to be so recognized and that’s how I felt. Now on the other side, I get quite a lot of recognition by the women. And I understand that I’m a woman. I would never swap that for anything else. I’ll be a woman any day, any time. My next life, I want to be a woman. And when women also say, she is doing well, that also is strong recognition. When women see their own and say, we identify with this woman, it’s a strong recognition. I get invited to a lot of talks by women. And even for the female engineers, I’ve had some of them ask me, are you an engineer? I say, have you ever seen me in your classroom or did you see me in your engineering forum? I’m a lawyer by profession. It’s not about being an engineer or being a lawyer and everything. It’s being a woman. Understanding that there are certain things and certain qualities that we as women share. And one of them, which is a big thing, is to encourage one another. Encourage one another, pat the woman on the back. Let her know that you’re with her. You support her. And that goes a long way in putting us women out.
Aren’t you sounding like a feminist with this seeming radical gender outpouring (general laughter)?
No no no, honestly, I’m not! I’m not being a feminist but I’ve since discovered, to be honest with you, women make better administrators.
Than men, of course…(another general laughter)?
No, don’t put words into my mouth (another laughter). But that’s not unexpected because it starts from the home. Even where you have children, girl child, male child, you find that your girl child is always the little mommy in the house. She’s the one who takes over with her brothers, even older brothers. She’s always the one guiding the boys, telling them let’s do it this way, go this way, and all that. It just comes natural. It’s a natural thing with women. You know, it’s an instinctive thing that women are better administrators. They have better listening ear and all what not. Even in NNPC, while I was there, I became Mama NNPC. I was surprised when we had one of the senior managers in a town hall meeting and to my greatest surprise, I was baptised Mama NNPC by the people. And, you know, it just goes to show something. It’s very endearing for you to know and feel that people see you as maternal, that they can
come to you with their problems. For me, the important thing is to be able to say something and be seen to mean what you say. And for the people I’m talking to, it’s for them to say that yes, in everything she says, there is the truth to it. And that’s it. That, for me, is very important. It’s very important to be held by my word, based on my truth. It’s very important to me.
Okay, when are we expecting your memoir?
Well, the month of October of every year is usually my birthday period. I was hoping that I could do it during the period. You just heard my catalogue of events. I’ve been so busy. I’m hoping l will find the time. So many things have been said. Even with the late Chuba (Okadigbo) a lot of things about Nigeria that I know haven’t been really put out there. You know, even in 20 years, people will come to me and say it’s funny people don’t even realize that it was Chuba Okadigbo that made possible the homecoming of the late Ikemba (Dim Chukwuemeka Odimegwu Ojukwu) to Nigeria in 1982 when he was political adviser to former President Shehu Shagari. Everything started with Chuba. He sold the idea to President Shagari, initiated the homecoming process and even went to his exile place in Ivory Coast to bring him back. It was Chuba who, at how old, 37, as Shagari’s advisor, called for the true no victor, no vanquished. So let all the warring parties come together. And let’s get back to Nigeria that we want. And that’s how he came back with the late Dr George Obiozor. And also when you talk about the political party called APGA (All Progressives Grand Alliance), Chuba Okadigbo was very privy to its formation. Even when
the likes of Chief Ralph’s Okey Nwosu, Chekwas Okorie and co came from the INEC (Independent National Electoral Commission) office with the INEC certificate for APGA issued by the late Dr Abel Guobadia (then INEC Chairman in 2003), it was to this house (Okadigbo’s Asokoro Abuja residence) that they first brought it to show Chuba for his blessing. So when people who don’t know the story behind APGA talk about the party, I just look at them and laugh. I say, you guys don’t even know how APGA started. There are people who know how it started. But they’re not talking. Well, the people who don’t know are the ones blowing, making so much noise about APGA.
There are so many things that I know, but I’m not a talking type. I’m a very quiet person. I like my life quiet, less controversial. But I’ll do my memoir, definitely. I think I owe it to my husband’s memory, too, to be able to do that. I’m going to need people who have run interviews with him (Chuba Okadigbo) over the years. I’m sure you have your own collections to add. So, that will definitely come. I think it’s something that I owe it to his memory to do. We also want to talk about his life and times together, a good documentary on him. It’s something that has been worked on for 20 years now. I think we put something together during his burial period. We’ve been taking a look at it again and see, maybe, areas of adjustments and editing improvement.