By Henry Uche
Presidential Candidate of Labour Party in the 2023 General Elections, Mr. Peter Obi, spoke on Nigeria’s Democracy day, Tinubu’s one year in office, among other issues. Daily Sun brings the excerpts aired on Arise TV.
You’ve been away from television for a while, making very few comments about what is happening, why so?
I am just following up and making sure that other people make the comments. And I listen because part of leadership is also listening and learning and that’s what is happening. So I have been contributing a bit of mine.
Nigeria’s fragile democracy, how concerned are you after a quarter of a century?
Well, for me, that was part of my comments today, the question is, the fundamental question to ask today is, are we truly democratic? Unexamined life is not worth living. Instead, we must examine what we’re doing. After 25 years of experimenting and trying to be a democratic country, it is time now to ask question, are we truly democratic; in some way of defining what is supposed to be democracy, government of the people, by the people, for the people. So, the fundamental question is, is this government of the people, by the people, for the people? This is supposed to be of benefit for the people. Which is not there today; absence of these benefits has led to leadership failure over the years, brought massive corruption, hunger, sufferings, all sorts of pains, insecurity, everything, the opposite is what we experienced. What you would actually be celebrating is a sort of state capture where those who have captured it have cornered all the benefits that are meant for the people. All the people are supposed to see like good education, good health, and pulling them out of poverty, have been cornered by the few who have captured the system, and they continue the suffering at the expense of all, the list is endless. You can go there and see the measure of democracy. We are 4.23, which shows we are low, you look at hunger index, we are 109 over 124 countries measured, which shows we are low; look at corruption index, we are 145 over 180 countries, which shows we are low. When you look at law and order, which is supposed to be an intangible asset that drives democracy, we are 120 over countries measured. So you can see we’re low in every facet. If you compare even the electioneering process that brings our leaders into office, again we’re very low. Let’s just take the recent three elections in comparable countries of South Africa, India and Mexico. In all these countries, first, over 60 percent of registered voters participated in voting. Polling booths over 80 percent opened on time and closed on time without incidents. No ballots snatching, no fraud, everything and results were transmitted electronically without any hitches, no glitches, nothing.
I watched the elections in my sitting room from beginning to the end. India that was supposed to have over three times Nigerian population, yet you could see it The election in our own case, less than 25 percent of the voters participated and indeed those who came out, many of them were prevented from voting. The polling booths did not open on time, they close late, with all sorts of fraud and everything. And when you think about it, in these countries I mentioned, these were carried out by ordinary citizens. In our own case, despite all these fraud, glitches, everything, it was being executed by professors. So, there must be something we need to reexamine. And I asked, how do we get it right for our children, for the future generation, we cannot continue on this path.
So how do we get it right?
By doing it right; if the government can stop it. I recall late president Yar’Adua who admitted that the process that brought him to office was faulty and he was bent on changing it and putting the right steps to do that which was followed up by Jonathan. Then he participated in the election, for the first time, the ruling party and the president lost the election. Just like you can see where I just told you in ANC in South Africa had a reduced position; in India, the same thing happened, they accepted it.
So do you think that the reason for this problem that you’ve identified is politicians in power, consciously refusing to give those institutions the latitude to operate?
Exactly, and making sure it happens? Institutions must be respected by those in office; they must make sure for the future of this society. Future of my children, a leader or those who are in leadership must do things rightly.
What do you see in the office you aspired for, do you see an individual that respects or does not respect the rule of law and who through his actions and those of his deputies and possibly ruling party, supports or does not support the fabric of this country’s democracy?
You can ask extraordinary Nigerians. Go and ask Nigerians out there.
I’m asking you
I don’t think they do. They don’t, that’s why it’s happening.
Leaders over the years have inherited decades of rots and you wouldn’t wave a magic wand and all that rot will disappear…
I don’t like discussing yesterday. No matter where you start, if you mean well, you can start correcting them. The role of a leader is not to remind people of the past or mention the past or think about the past. Your role is to show the path, by doing things that are right. Change starts from you. If you decide to walk the right path, that’s how it starts. You can decide, okay, yesterday was wrong, that is even part of why we hired you, to right the wrong of yesterday, we didn’t hire you to remind us of yesterday’s wrongs. Your predecessor was wrong yesterday, but don’t give us excuses, show us the solutions and how best to do it, that’s leadership.
After 25 years, are we walking on the edge of a razor blade as some say?
We’re actually going in the wrong direction. Very wrong direction, and we need to change it and walk in the right direction. And it has to start from the number one.
Do you think the president has displayed the strength to tackle Nigeria’s many problems? Are you impressed by projects like the Calabar high way…
You know I have not made any comment on his one year in office. The reason why is simple. President Tinubu has kept his campaign promises. Throughout his campaign, he consistently maintained that he would continue from where Buhari stopped. And he has done that very well. I will give him excellent.
It’s very simple. Dollar was N416,/1$, it’s now N1500/1$, fuel was N238, it’s now about 700, diesel was N844, it’s now N1,415, a bag of rice was N35,000, now it’s about N80,000, a bag of beans was similar, about N35,000, it’s now N90,000, gari was N27,000, it’s now N50,000, a Tomato basket was about N40,000 and it’s now N150,000. Electricity was 66 Kilowatts, it’s now about 200. You can go on and on. Even bread which is the basic thing other countries are subsidizing like Egypt, Small, Medium bread was N450, it’s now N900, a big one is now N1500. Our debt like I mentioned that it was N87 trillion by end of last year, it was actually N97 trillion, the highest though within that short period; now it’s about N100 trillion. This year alone, the government through CBN has issued and taken from the system over N16 trillion. You can imagine the interests at almost 20 percent is about N3.2 trillion after 12 months.
Last year, in a period of nine months, we spent about N5.7 trillion servicing debt interest on payments. Over all of the economy, by the time he took over last year, we were the biggest economy in Africa, with $477 billion as our GDP, followed by South Africa, Egypt, Algeria and Morocco. Today, we are number four, South Africa is number one now, think about $373 billion. Egypt is second $347 billion, followed by Algeria to $266, and we are now $252 billion GDP economy; it is even worse when you go to per Capita. We are actually one quarter of per Capita of the least of these nations I mentioned. South Africa is about 600 per Capita, Egypt is 4000 plus, so is Algeria and then Morocco which amount is supposed to be the 5th, 4,210, and we’re 1000 Plus, so we actually had gone low, we’re coming from a low of capital of 3000 plus in 2014. So every other thing has headed south. Insecurity, corruption has worsened; nepotism is the highest.
President’s pain before the gain philosophy and if you have become president, how difficult would it have been to govern in the current environment because you would have inherited essentially bad economy from President Buhari, would you have been able to turn things around in one year?
The first thing you do as a leader who inherited a difficult situation is to lead by example. And it starts by your conduct, your behavior, how you manage resources. You cannot say that things are difficult when you’re living a conspicuous life of consumption. There are things you don’t do. Nigeria today is a country with the highest amount of people without homes. Over 24 million.
Yet, you are spending over N20 billion to build a house for one person.
How can a vice president of Nigeria not live in four bedroom house? In the UK, the Prime Minister lives in three rooms, in UK, that is an economy that is almost 10 times better than our economy.
The Prime Minister lives in 3 rooms. What are you talking about? That’s how you start. You start living like somebody who is coming through difficulty, who is facing difficulty, we want to change things we do. That’s how we do it. You don’t engage in what we’ve been doing, buying vehicles, exotic lifestyle as if things are normal when you said there is difficulty. You need to deal with the issue of cutting the cost of governance. That’s where you start to deal with this massive corruption, showing that okay, things are bad. Where I come in and found that things are bad, I will start by cutting the cost of governance.
Now he’s entering the second year, what are the…
To show a clear plan. It is not enough to say we are going to go through problems. If we’re going to work through problems, it is very simple. You enter a plane, there is a bad weather, there was going to be turbulence, the pilot says we’re going to go through a bad weather, we’re going to take off maybe one hour or two hours, because of this, that is not the time to stop serving food or wine and everything, when everything is not okay. There is turbulence and people are there singing and dancing. I will say what happened to Titanic is what is happening in Nigeria. While the plane was in trouble, people were busy upper there dancing until the plane collapsed. That is what is happening now! We should change and do things right. We cannot continue the corrupt system.
Has your public standing grown or diminished since the 2023 election?
I don’t know. Only the public will know. Mine is to continue interacting and being part of the process of building a new Nigeria that is possible because we can’t continue to head to a disaster. We must do things rightly. Like I always said, I’m not desperate to be President of Nigeria but I am desperate to see Nigeria work, and work for the poor people of Nigeria. The system has been very uncaring for the people of Nigeria and we must succeed to remove this criminalised system, corruption that we the politicians have unleashed on the country; we can make it better.
Wole Soyinka attack on your competence
Well, quite frankly, I will not make a comment. I have a policy, I don’t respond when my fathers talk. Wole Soyinka is a father. I leave it to them. Because when I became their age, I want those younger ones to respect me, though I also try to put myself in a position that I will respect myself before that happens. One of the things he said was that he talked about ‘the Obidients’, me inciting them, but I will never, knowingly, and I have never, knowingly or unknowingly, asked any of the Obidients or the young people to say anything against any elder, a priest, or Imam, never. And I don’t make comment; they make comments. It’s left for Nigerians to know whether I’m fit or not. I’ve been a successful businessman in the private sector. I have been in the corporate world, I can say I’m one of the most successful, and also I have served a state. I have challenged all those who have served, let’s put out our records side by side, let’s see, and when I served, you know the only measure of development was Millennial Development Goals (MDGs), then, which has started seven years after, when it ended, I was number one.
Wole Soyinka said by not controlling or at least trying to control the online trolls, who he says are obedients are responsible for the insults directed at him that you are tacitly encouraging such behaviour.
No human being on earth today have controlled online trolls. Nobody. Go and see what they write about me. It’s even worse than what they write about him. Go and read it all. If they do that against me, how do I now control, who do I know that is doing that. It could actually be those his friends who claim that they are Obidents, doing it in order to make him make such statements. But like I said, he remains a revered father. And I respect him.
What about former Director general of your campaign organisation, Doyin Okupe’s recent comments which may have hurt you…
It is a personal assessment. It’s just personal to him. And like I said, all this happened, I don’t want to comment about it because what we’re talking about is the present position. Is gari cheaper? If his comments would make yam, gari cheaper in the country, or help in managing the huge corruption, it’s fine with me. Let’s stay with the issues of the present. Whenever people are talking, see I don’t do politics of he said, she said. Noo! Let’s stay with the issues, we have a big problem. Look at the report that those who are going to be hungry in Nigeria have increased from 24 million to about 37 million. We have young people who…we have bad results all over the place. That’s what we should focus on and not whether Peter Obi is fit or not. I’m fit to be a president of Nigeria, I’m competent, put me line by line with those who are competing, in terms of education, fitness, background, I can stand tall above them all comfortably.
Special Adviser to the governor of Anambra State, Dr. Alex Obiogbolu, comparing your achievements with the current governor’s, he said your 8 years achievement is nothing to Soludo’s 2 years
Again, I don’t like talking about issues like this. But because you mentioned it, let me tell you, let people go and look at my electoral promises for the people of Anambra State. Education, health, pulling people out of poverty, making sure there is access to rural areas, and I can tell you, they were the measures of MDGs, and I was number 1. I was number 1 in education, one in health, I was there pulling people out of poverty, go and ask who ran office of poverty alleviation. (Professor, Dr. Markel), go and ask Sam Dean, I was number one. What I promised, I delivered. The European Union is there on education and all, I finished it and was able to leave a savings; Sub- national savings, for the first time in Nigeria, for future generation. Nobody has ever done that. What I promised I delivered. My elder brother, Soludo promised Dubai/ Taiwan in Anambra, and until Anambra becomes that because you stick to what you promised, what I promise I delivered. When Anambra become Dubai/ Taiwan, he has achieved his purpose. I didn’t promise that, and what I m saying I would do when I become president, I was saying what are deliverable.
When I was talking about being president, I said what is deliverable that I’m going to do this in the North, We’re going to make sure or go to the North, turn around the land for food sufficiency. I don’t say what I can’t do, and I would have started from day one, and showed the direction, that is how it works.
Future of Labour Party, the toxicity and all that
No, there is no toxic division within the party, I can tell you I’m intervening, you will find out when in the family, there are issues, it’s resolved within. It is not a public affair thing. But we’re talking and I assure you, whatever is the problem or crisis in Labour Party is not up to 10 percent of what happened or happening in other parties. Everything would be resolve amicably..
There appears to be an extraordinary realignment taking place within the Labour Party. It was Mr. Apapa earlier, Mr. Arambabi, others, accusations and counter…
People are just exaggerating things. Nobody knows who is working against me. They said, some elements tried to say that. If you want to know, whenever Labour Party’s doing anything, come out. You see who they will announce who the leader is and you’ll see it in the coming days where we’ll go out and start enforcing our function.
Do you intend to remain in the Labour Party?
We don’t have that type of conflict you mentioned. I’m a faithful member of Labour Party. And I remain a member of Labour for any reason, like I said, if we’re going to move forward, and there are other groups that are going to walk with us, we work with them, so long as they’re like minds.
Possible mergers and alliances ahead of 2027, any deal in the offing?
There is no deal but I wish and hope there will be one of like mindset. We need people to look who are committed to serving this country, but for themselves.
Are you working towards a deal?
Well, like I said, we’re trying to put ourselves together, and explore all those opportunities. We have not started it, but that is part of what we’re considering. At the moment, nothing to report. I would like to see like minds and those who can see that we are in difficulty to come together and save this country for the future of our children.
You have talked a lot about governance on different levels. At state level, has any governor performed good enough in your own assessment?
Of course, you can see governor Alex Otti of Abia State, what he’s doing. It is not about the party, it’s about the people. Whenever you asked me about government performance, I would say to you, go to the people. It’s how the people feel. You asked me about Anambra and I said to you, go to the people and verify. Let me walk in the street of Anambra State, and let the people tell you. Anything you can use to measure good governance, the people felt it. It’s about the people, it’s not about what the politicians say.
I won the best state road network in this country by Federal Minister of works that is supposed to be in opposition. So I can go on and on and tell you what we were able to do. So for me, it is the people out there that I listen to. There are some governors, maybe in their first year, but definitely, he stands out.
Who are the other governors?
These are what I read. I used to tell people that considering what is happening in Borno State, see governor Zulum trying to contain insecurity. So what frankly, is for me to assess the other states, I didn’t go assessing them. Are we at the point where I’m going to look at what is in different states and ask questions from the people? But I don’t make comments unless from the people.
You mentioned state capture, you cited elections that took place in South Africa, Mexico and India, their Electoral Commissions are very independent, what would you do with the Electoral Commission in Nigeria?
Simple thing; insist that they do their work independently. Democracy is what it should be, if I have the opportunity. I’ve served as a governor. I never interfered with any institution. Go and ask those who were in the judiciary when I was there, not for one day, did I interfere. Go and ask those in the education like the Universities, not one day, go and ask the police, the army, all the securities, if Peter Obi asked them for one day to go and arrest this person.
In fact, when I was doing my second tenure, go and ask the security people that came to meet me, INEC, DSS, Police, Army, they came to meet me. And I told them, all I want is, let all my votes be my votes. I don’t want the one extra vote that is not me. I don’t want it and I don’t want one of mine to be missing. Go and ask. I want justice and fairness. And it was free and fair. And I insisted.
If you say that the Electoral Commission is corrupt, was it because of your non – interference?
No, if they know that you’re strict and you’re going to do the right thing, just as I always say about corruption, that if the number one, number two, where the president or governor decides to stop it, and he’s not involved, his children or family are not involved, that you have reduced it by over 50 percent. If you decide to do the right thing and order for the right thing, it would be done.
Is your message more confident today after the 2023 presidential election or is there something that needs to pick up?
For me, is a continuation to deliver the same message, insisting that we can’t have a country that is criminalised as it’s today, where I have shown you indices of measuring development, our human development index low, our human capital is low, our health is low, so what else do you want? We’re poverty capital; it is worsening, per capita which you used to measure, have fallen from a high of 3000 in 2014 to 1000 today. Things are worsening, inflation headed south, look at interest rates. I’m not trying to make it up; it is the reality.
So in that context, what is your message to the people of Nigeria as they look up to you and other politicians for leadership and for hope of a better future?
Well, I will start with the politicians, it is time for us to have a rethink and think about the poor people of this country. There are so many things that are going wrong. The poor people are suffering
We must now refocus and deal with so many issues that concerns poor people, which we don’t address. I was talking to somebody earlier about heritage bank issue. How dare you allow such a situation at this critical time that so many poor people with their little savings have put it in a bank where I’m sure whatever causeed them to collapse came from the elites and top politicians, and you allow them to lose their savings.
They will now allow some big people and some big institutions to be able to get their money back and allow poor people to languish. I know a man whose entire life savings of 80 million is in that bank; he worked all his life, he is late. His family depends on interest on that money. I know those who put money in community banks, microcredit banks and all sorts of saving institutions who in turn put it in Heritage bank, and you allow it to collapse. They don’t even know where to go to, they live in the village and roaming all over the places crying, when would this country start caring for the poor? That is the problem we have here. And we must deal with it. When you see this massive corruption going on, if it is not budget padding today, it is undisclosed subsidy payments, it’s inflated contracts and all sorts of things, which we should deal with the issues. I want our agencies like EFCC to start dealing with the issues and not arresting Bobrisky or Cubana Chief priest, these are minor issues. We have things that are going wrong. Our speaker through one of his aides, said in April, we are losing 300 barrels of crude every day. People like Tony Elumelu have said we’re losing over 50 percent of our production.
Specifically, 300 barrels a day multiplied by 75, which is minimal you can get today is $22,500,000; at the rate of N1,500, is N33,750,000,000 billion every day. Multiply it by one month, it’s a trillion, twelve and half billion naira, which is about what the three tiers of government share every month.
That’s where I want our agencies who are pursuing people who are corrupt, to be, budget padding in all these areas, that’s where they should be. Facing it squarely not arresting Bobrisky because he dressed like a woman and he sprayed about Naira. I can assure you that if you call Nigerians today and we are going to feed only women in this hunger time, many men would dress like women and go and collect the food because we are all hungry. Bobrisky will even be missing, you will see that the wig and weavon market will be flooded with men, so these are issues we need to face and solve squarely.