•Reason communities should take up arms to defend themselves
President of the Middle Belt Forum (MBF), Dr Bitrus Pogu, has lashed out at some people he claims are exploiting ignorance and using religion and ethnicity to unleash terror on Nigerians. He warned that if something was not done very urgently, the country might go the way of Somalia.
He noted that for the killings in the North-Central and other parts of the country to stop, the federal government would have to be more determined and committed to fighting insecurity head-on. He urged the National Assembly to allow at least some level of self-defence by individuals in those places, noting that the killings will continue to spiral and escalate until communities are allowed the use of some arms as the primary source of defence.
In this interview with VINCENT KALU, Dr Pogu condemned the composition of the census committee set up by President Bola Tinubu, stressing that it’s suspicious and will create problem for the country.
In the last couple of weeks, Nigeria has been bleeding. Hundreds of citizens have been killed when the country is not at war with another country. What do you say to this?
If it is not addressed, it will lead us to anarchy and eventual disintegration of this country. We know that nearly all these aggressors are from one part of the country, the north. Whether it is the Boko Haram, whether it is the Fulani herdsmen militia, Lakurawa, and the other one that I read about that is coming up around Kwara State. Yeah, it’s all more of a northern problem.
People are exploiting ignorance, and they are using religion and ethnicity to unleash terror on others. It has been accommodated and endured in spite of all the pains.
But unless something is done very urgently, this country may go down. The call to have state police, so that states will be able to manage their things witnessed a lot of opposition, but gradually, whether we like it or not, we are getting there.
Community policing is another thing we have been advocating to address some of these things. At least, it will be better than when everybody picks up arms, and resolved to self-defence, which is what we are advocating as a remedial measure.
Some communities have been very good at it. Just as our DG of DSS mentioned recently that some communities have been able to defend themselves successfully, which other communities can emulate.
However, some psychological infliction of fear by the terrorists has made some to resign to fate. But, of course, when pushed to the wall, everybody would respond in one way or the other.
Unless the government gets serious, and unless our National Assembly gets serious and allow at least some level of arming of communities to be the primary source of defence before any intervention would come from either the military or the police, we will continue to have these problems spiralling over and over again. And it’s escalating.
For some time, all those so-called helicopter droppings ceased, but yesterday, somebody called me that they sighted one helicopter dropping people who have white-coloured skin, maybe, Arabs, around that Hong axis. So, they are gathering now to attack some parts of Northern Adamawa. It’s a new dimension being added to the insurgency.
If it has started in that area, if locals have sighted helicopter dropping supplies and people, then there’s going to be a new wave of escalation beyond what we have imagined or we have seen in the past.
So, everybody has to get on board and think about how to defend themselves and defend their communities.
How could communities defend themselves when the attackers are armed with sophisticated weapons, while community vigilante groups carry local guns. How would they square up against these terrorists?
Communities at this moment cannot afford even the normal assault rifles that are out there. Even buying a shotgun now is out of the reach of an ordinary man in the community. Even when you get it, to get cartridges that can be used effectively is a herculean task.
But if the government is deliberate in its approach, there is what we call the Pakistani model, where the government itself arms communities to some level to be the first line of defence before the military or paramilitary forces would come to their aid. Such a model can be studied and applied in Nigeria. That’s one.
When the British came to colonise Nigeria, our people fought them and in some places, chased them away. They had guns, but we had only bows and arrows.
With courage, in some cases, arrows may even be so effective.
In the first place, you don’t hear any sounds. In the second place, if the arrow is poisoned, you will be lucky to be able to walk up to half a kilometre before you die.
Again, communities, the villagers can resort to even native things to defend themselves, if it is allowed.
Anytime you pass around a checkpoint, you see the military having stacks of sandbags. The idea is that the shock and the speed of the bullets fired at them will be resisted or slowed down by those sandbags. So, they can be protected that way. Villagers can start going back to building mud houses thick enough to withstand the passage of bullets and take cover at the back to do what is necessary.
Thirdly, we know that these people, to intimidate even the military, they use anti-aircraft (AA) guns, which have longer reach than the military’s AK-47 or the police, and that’s how they used to run over military posts with ease sometimes. Knowing this, our government has to look at ways and means to ensure that such is neutralised.
Drones are common these days for surveillance, and it is disheartening to hear that these people can come to a place, whether it is a village or a military formation without being noticed and they would overrun a place. With drone technology (many of them have the capability for night visions), before theses criminals come, they can be spotted and remedial measure can be taken either by the community to lay ambush or by the security forces. To say that because these things are not affordable and nothing can be done is wrong. There are lots of things that can be done.
The security forces seem to have been overwhelmed. We only hear that they arrived after the damage has been done, and they will be assuring us that they were going to get the assailants. What is your take on this?
The truth about the matter is that the approach to the insurgency ab initio had been wrong. We started by waiting for these people to come and attack before they are repelled, which is a wrong approach. You fight a war by defending, you fight by attacking. They are supposed to be spotted and dislodged, and not allowing them to organise themselves to attack.
There is modern technology, and the second thing, is the political will. At all levels, the political will should be there to tell these security forces to go after them, and not to wait for them.
The government should use superior technology to handle them.
And then, of course, there are issues to do with even the judiciary. Many of these people have been arrested or have surrendered, and under some guise of de-radicalisation, they were said to have been integrated into communities.
Majority of them have found their way back to the bushes to perpetrate the act again.
The judiciary, the system, and the people who pass judgments on these people should know what they are capable of doing, the danger they are posing to this country and the likely outcome if we don’t handle it squarely, if we continue to handle it with kid’s gloves.
They should not be allowed to move around when they are arrested in the acts and by doing that, we would be reducing the number of people who are out there. But, by claiming that you are de-radicalising them, the same people go around and join their brothers again, maybe because the thing is lucrative or because it’s a spiritual thing, which they feel they have an obligation to do.
So, discussing with them doesn’t work and anybody who tells you that you can negotiate with these people is wrong, more so, when they feel that it is more of ideological to take over territories and forcefully displace people, and change people’s perception of life to their own. It’s either you crush it or it continues because any negotiation isn’t going to work. Because we have even allowed it to linger for too long they are now confident or more confident than before that they can achieve their objective. The earlier all of us rise up against them, the better, otherwise, as we take it jokingly, we will all be overrun.
Bishop Matthew Kukah expressed fears that Nigeria was stretching to a breaking point? If this continues, what will be the consequence?
We will be like Somalia, and we will have bits and pieces of communities running their own government, central government would collapse and every group that can survive will take the law into their hands and that will be the end of the country. It will be unfortunate if just because of some interests, we allow things to degenerate to that level.
You can see that some of these things have political undertone. Somebody somewhere must be funding somebody. It’s not easy to keep people in the bushes, it’s not easy to fund them, and it’s not easy to bring supplies to them. So, there must be forces within this country sponsoring these things.
We have a very funny country that considers some people superior to others and unless we squarely deal with criminals and eliminate all threats, we cannot move forward
What do you make of the president’s absence while all those killings were happening in Plateau, Benue and others? And what do you think some other countries would be thinking of us and our leaders?
It’s unfortunate that we have this development, but I don’t see that one as an issue because government is not just one person. Mr President has the National Security Adviser, he has the Chief of Defence Staff, who is the coordinating person of the military forces, and we have the Inspector General of Police. These lieutenants of his can always react to issues if he has given them the political will to do so.
So, yes, he is out there. We are not told exactly why he is out, whether it is medical or whatever. We know the typical Nigerian attitude is for leaders to behave this way. He is not the first one doing this kind of thing. If the country works well and the institutions are operating well, it doesn’t matter whether the president is in or out. So let’s have strong institutions, and things will work.
Like you just mentioned, do you see some political undertones?
Certainly. Comments from especially northern elites; the political class are to undermine the president, and also to ensure that he doesn’t return. Even members of his political party are included. So, one wouldn’t be surprised that such elements are parties to the escalation of the hostilities. Certainly, one can’t rule out political considerations in this escalation.
Why do you think some people are working hard to see the country boiling and hundreds of citizens dispatched to their graves?
It is unfortunate that we don’t have people who are in politics because of developing the country. The majority is there for their selfish reasons and to corner power. With political power, they can corner economic power, and thereafter use the economic power to corner political power again. Rather than think about the people and the nation, they think about themselves.
The bottom line is that we have not yet become a nation; we are just people from different nations packed together and everybody is trying to serve their individual or collective interest within the Nigerian geographical space. The nationhood, which we have been grappling to have, has eluded us and we only pray that we have real patriotism developing among our political class. It is unfortunate that their decisions and what they are doing are destroying the country. That is where we have found ourselves
For the forthcoming national census, the president has inaugurated an eight-man census committee – five from South-West, two from North-West and one from North Central. The South-East, South-South and North-East are excluded. What is your position on this?
It is unfortunate. Whoever that constituted the committee didn’t think about Nigeria. Nigeria is a complex country with multidimensional problems and issues, and in addressing any issue in Nigeria, we have to consider all these sensitivities – tribe, religion, zones, etc. And knowing that census is very important, and there are even other variables.
For example, since we’ve had census, some demographics have never been known or have never been considered, even for planning. Nobody knows how many atheists are in Nigeria, how many Christians are in Nigeria, how many Muslims are in Nigeria, and how many traditional religious worshipers. So these things have been manipulated.
And, of course, the makeup of the committee will be suspect, ab initio. Something has to be done about it. And we have to employ technology.
I mean, this day and age, a satellite out there can tell you the exact number of people with two legs moving around, and it is able to determine their sexes.
So, we have to employ technology; technology can come in, but, of course, the balancing is necessary to remove suspicion so that, as a nation, we can trust each other.
But we know this president didn’t pretend when he was vying for office. He said he was going to follow the footsteps of Buhari, and the nepotism which Buhari did, he said he would do, and he’s doing it. You don’t blame him. And people voted him, whether rightly or wrongly.
We should have a Nigerian President rather than a sectional or tribal president.
And that’s the sorry situation we find ourselves in.
But that issue of census and the committee or the group that have been assembled should reflect the Nigerian nation, not the way it is. Whoever that constituted the committee is only creating problems for this country.