By Enyeribe Ejiogu
For 10 years, from 1999 to 2009, Archbishop of Calvary Kingdom Church International, Dr. Joseph Imariabe Ojo, served as the National Secretary of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria. As a Christian minister, he has never refrained from speaking truth to power and declaring the whole truth of the Bible. As he continues to soldier on in Christian ministry and on cusp of his 76th birthday, he sat down with Sunday Sun to bare his mind on the state of the nation and offer his view on the kind of leader the country needs. In this interview, he also speaks on the growing misinterpretation of Scripture by some younger pastors.
When you compare the Pentecostal Christian landscape in Nigeria today with the way it was when you got born again, what are your thoughts?
There is a whole lot of difference between what it was like back then and what is involved now. The only thing that has not changed is faith. Faith is constant. As the Bible says, “the just shall live by faith.” But people’s understanding of that faith may differ. But the truth is, from generation to generation, faith is the means by which salvation is gotten. Then, the way we understood faith then could be somehow different from the way people understand faith now. The same thing with the scriptures, because the way people interpret some scriptures now could be said to be somehow different from our understanding when we got born again back then.
I think that what is making the difference between then and now is the knowledge. The Bible recorded that knowledge will increase. Our exposure then could be said to be different from the exposure now. Some of the interpretations that we had about certain scriptures then and now, led to the difference. For instance, before this interview took off, I said people major in what a woman should wear. Now, have you discovered that in Nigeria, for example, wearing trousers whether by men or women is something of recent, because traditionally, Nigerians were dressing in a particular way the English people came to this country. Today, if I come to church Before the English people came, Nigerians have a way of dressing, but if I come to my church dressed in traditional Benin attire, people would be surprised and even shocked and ask, “What’s happening to Bishop today? If I tie wrapper to enter the auditorium, the congregation would think I am bastard and have become a traditionalist. But the truth is salvation is constant.
The way I look or dress is not what makes salvation. So people should be able to know and understand that most of the things that are coming into the church today are making some people to be confused. But those of us that have seen what these people have not seen, we are like Zerubbabel when he building the house of God. He asked the people, how many of them saw the original foundation, wanting to know from them if there was anything to be compared to what they were seeing at the time. If you have seen the original foundation, there’s nothing to compare to what you are seeing now. So that’s the way Christianity is now. What it was like in the late 60 and 70s when Pentecostal Christianity was coming up, it is not the way we see it now.
Back then, people were hungry for God. You can leave your job and go for a camp meeting or for a retreat. But today, people are pursuing money and mundane things, because the god of this world has blinded their eyes and taken over.
For instance, look at the wrong interpretation which some preachers give to Malachi 3:8, where the Bible says: “Will a man rob God? You say, wherein have we robbed you? In tithes and in offerings. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house. And prove me, if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing.” Some people now claim, incorrectly, that Christians shouldn’t pay tithe.
But God clearly said the people had robbed Him not in tithes only, but “in tithes and offering.” The people who condemn paying tithes still take offering. If you are taking offering but condemning tithes then you are robbing God too. You are a culprit; you are taking condemned goods. So, we should take the whole gospel. Some people are being used by the devil to sow confusion, claiming that Christians shouldn’t pay tithe. But in the scripture they quote, God clearly said that they rob Him in tithe and offering. They quarrel over tithe but not over offering. To be correct, they should not take offering too, then within months people will question the source of the income to run the church and finance your TV ministry. People are deceived not to pay tithe but bring huge offering. If you misuse Malachi 3:8, it means that you have a mission and sent by the devil to destroy the work of God. The tithe and offering have a purpose.
Please explain the purpose of tithe…
God said: “Bring the tithe and offering. I will rebuke the devourer for your sin.” This is God speaking, not man. In Old Testament, the tithe was to be for the priest, for the management of both their household and for the work of the ministry. The priests are to be the treasurers of the storehouse of God. The priests were dedicated to God, to keep custody of the tithe and offering of the people. The tribe of Levi was given the priesthood and for that reason they did not get any inheritance as per land and coasts.
In the time of Ezra, the temple was neglected and broken down. So a treasury was created and a treasurer was appointed. From the treasury, money was taken repair the temple. Looking at the very big auditorium of Calvary Kingdom Church International, is there anybody who doesn’t know that takes money to maintain it and pay the staff who work here, from the gateman, to cleaners, buy diesel, pay electric bills to the power distribution company, finance crusade, evangelism, sponsor medical outreach in the local community and do other forms of charity to people? Right now, we are about to remove part of the roof to repair the parts that are leaking, because the steel trusses have rusted at some points and become weak. Parts of the ceiling have fallen off.
So, anybody that says to you go to church, don’t pay tithe. I think they are crazy. I think they are, the devil sent them, to come and destroy the work of God. They are just selling the church to the government. These kind of pastors are children. I have been in the ministry, before some of them were born. I was a pastor before many of them were called to ministry. My first ordination certificate is there. I was ordained on November 6, 1976. Even some of the big pastors today became pastors in 1981 or 1982.
How do you feel about the state of the nation today?
I feel very, very discouraged. The reason is that Nigerians have had opportunities to change things, but they refused. The 2023 election would have been the proper time for us to effect real change. Whether people were dreaming, I don’t understand. We had opportunity to try a different person, and hope that things will work. We have a set of politicians who are just selfish and concerned only about their personal gain. They made sure that it did not work, and we are all suffering it.
Given the way Nigeria is today, we don’t need restoration. Rather, we need prophecy. When Jesus was asked when the kingdom would be restored, He said Elijah will come and restore all things. Now, how does that relate to us? Elijah was a prophet. With that God has called us into the prophetic ministry. We must begin to say good things about Nigeria. That’s the only thing that will bring us out. Prophet Elijah restored Israel through his prophecy. We shouldn’t condemn Nigeria. We should be prophesying and be hopeful. As people created in the spiritual image of God, we should by faith be calling the things that are not yet physical as they are already in existing. Let us trust God and begin to see the situation of Nigeria changing for the better in the Spirit and then it will come into manifestation.
Every day I pray for Nigeria, and say good things about Nigeria. Every day I say that Nigeria will rise again. The country will triumph and take its place in the comity of nations. I believe that as we continue to say good things about Nigeria, God cause the prophecies to manifest.
Now, let’s talk about insecurity and all the terrorists coming in from the Sahel and their ilk in the country. The bible recorded the account of King Jehoshaphat (2 Chronicles 2) when the people of Moab, Ammon and Mount Seir came against Israel. Can biblical account relate to Nigeria of today? Considering what Jehoshaphat did at that time, has the time come for us to do the same, to declare a day of lamentation unto God, based on that scripture?
Yes, I believe so. Such day of prayer should be led by one person, if God’s hand is upon that person, you’ll see the willingness of all other leaders to line up behind him or to support him or to lend a voice to what he’s doing. It is not something that will be done in the democratic way. God does not work with democracy. I believe one person should rise up like Jehoshaphat, who mobilized the people. When we see somebody who is courageous to say, “Enough is enough,” and who doesn’t have money but has a good name and is able to speak to speak on people, then that person will have the backing of God and will be able to stand and resist these forces.
Would that person necessarily have to be a Christian?
He could be a Christian. He could not even be a Christian, but have the heart of God. God uses people, not only Christians. That’s where we have made the mistake. Look at the Bible. God chose King Cyrus, a heathen who became an instrument that He used to move Israel back from Babylon to their land. God can use anybody. God does not only use religious people. God can use an irreligious person. When Jehoshaphat rose up and people followed him, God did what he did. So God can use anybody. I believe God can help us out. Nigeria needs a Jehoshaphat.
We need somebody that has the interest of this country at heart. We need a person that has the fear of God, who is not selfish, has character, capacity, competence and who has conquered greed to the leader of this country. That is the person the people will rally round and follow. When such a person emerges and calls for a day of prayer and lamentation unto God, then the people will respond. And we will be delivered from all this. In the same scripture, it talks about how they declared a fast, such that men, women and children, all joined to cry unto God.
Assuming that somebody comes to you share this with you, would you welcome that person?
You know, there’s something that the Holy Spirit does. If you sit here talking to me, without even introducing yourself, the Holy Spirit will tell me and convince me that this person is worth supporting. It’s the influence of the Holy Spirit. When that person stands up, the people that will be looking on to him will not even think of his tribe or his background. The Spirit of the Lord will administer to those people, and tell them this is your chance. This is your opportunity. Support this person. And you’ll see, there will be a mighty revival. But if the person has the intention of doing it for financial gain, the heart of the people will not be knitted to him.
What is your age now? Forgive me for asking.
I am 76 now.
What would you like the Lord God to do for Nigeria in your life time? What would you like to see?
I have been praying. I am desirous of seeing a better Nigeria, I want to see the country have a leader that has the fear of God. The Bible says in 2 Samuel 23, verse 3: “The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel, spake to me. He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.”
I’m praying God to give us leaders that know they are ruling over men, not over animals. Leaders that know they are not ruling over trees, but over human beings. Trees don’t have feelings. That’s why you can cut it and turn it to firewood. But human beings have feelings.
We are being led by people who don’t even think that we feel anything. It’s bad. A leader must know that the people he’s leading have feelings. That’s why Jesus remained a role model, He was not just a role model. The Bible says, “We don’t have a high priest that is not touched with the feelings of our infirmity.” When you are in pain, Jesus is in pain. When you are in debt, Jesus is in debt. But when you have leaders that are debt-free, who want you to die in debt, then we don’t have leaders.