By Oluseye Ojo
Professor Olaide Nasir, in an inspiring journey that combines the arts and mental health, stands as a pioneering force. He is the first Professor of Drama Therapy in Africa.
With over three decades of experience in theatre and a profound curiosity about its therapeutic potential, Professor Nasir has dedicated his life to exploring how drama can transcend mere entertainment and serve as a powerful tool for healing.
In this exclusive interview, Professor Nasir shares insights into the challenges and triumphs he encountered while blazing this new trail, recounting pivotal moments that shaped his career and the significance of drama therapy in improving mental well-being.
He discusses the issues he faced in gaining recognition for this innovative field, particularly within healthcare institutions and correctional facilities, where initial scepticism was gradually replaced by understanding and acceptance of its benefits.
As he looks towards the future, Professor Nasir remains hopeful for the evolution of drama therapy across Africa, where he envisions increased interest among students and stakeholders alike.
What inspired you to pursue a career in drama therapy? How did you become the first Professor of drama therapy in Africa?
What inspired me to pursue a career in Drama Therapy is the fact that ever since I have been in the theatre, which is more than three decades now. I have always wondered other uses of the theatre, apart from entertainment, education.
Then, my curiosity led me to therapeutic values coupled with the fact that I have always been in the academic world, having been born and bred inside the University of Ibadan. I was equally brought up in an artistic field by renowned theatre scholars, who include Prof Dapo Adelugba, Prof Ola Rotimi, Baba Segun Akinbola, Dr. Sumbo Marinho, all of blessed memories. And of course, the likes of Prof Femi Osofisan, Prof Bode Sowande, and many others.
And having traversed several areas of the theatre – technical theatre, directing, and management, my curiosity now led me to Applied Drama, which is the practice of the theatre outside the four walls of the university. In that practice, I realised that drama therapy could be interesting, or rather, I find it interesting because I read about it.
So, I decided to pursue a career in drama therapy, which led me to being the first African to become a professor, using drama as a therapy. So, I became the first Professor of Drama Therapy in Africa.
Can you share a pivotal moment in your journey to becoming the first Professor of Drama Therapy in Africa?
It has a lot to do with my background, having been brought up by a professor, who is my father, with my mother being in the education field too.
Naturally, reading and writing are like my second skin. Two, when I started my sojourn in drama therapy, I realised that it was like I was in a wilderness. I am the first person because I searched and searched, researched, and couldn’t find contemporaries pursuing a career up to Ph.D level in Africa.
Yes, I would not say I am the first African Drama therapist. There was somebody. But he didn’t go beyond first degree. He was fortunate because he is more recognised in that country, especially South Africa, probably because of the long years of apartheid. But it wasn’t like that in Nigeria, until I blazed the trail.
So, when I started my PhD in Drama Therapy, of course, it wasn’t easy; nobody to talk to, nobody to consult, except importing books from abroad, talking to professionals from the United States of America, and United Kingdom, who gave me more enlightenment, bought books on Amazon, had books sent to me by friends and colleagues abroad.
Eventually, I finished my PhD and continued with my research and writings on Drama Therapy, which earned me the promotion to become a professor with texts, and articles in reputable national and international journals, thereby becoming the first professor of Drama Therapy in Africa.
Yes, it is not an easy task to become the renowned expert in drama therapy because being a new area in this clime, many people are not aware of it and are not aware of its importance and uses.
I don’t blame them really because they have seen it as something new, and sometimes, you get to be asked some questions about its necessity.
For example, I was at a world-class psychiatric hospital , where I wanted to practise drama therapy, and I was subjected to serious interrogation about its necessity in their hospital, and all that.
Again, I faced the same task at the Nigerian Prisons, now called Correctional Homes, where I was made to realise that it didn’t have a place in the prison. Again, I don’t blame them because it is still new.
So, I was patient and I took my time to educate them in these institutions and elsewhere I go, where I faced similar issues. It took some time before they understood what it was all about.
But now, they understand. They are the ones now calling me to ask when I would come again. I believe that is an achievement. At least they have realised its importance.
How do you see the field of drama therapy evolving in Africa in the coming years?
Well, I think it is gaining more grounds now, and I am happy about that, because even in Nigeria here, we can count few people who are coming into the field, and few people too who have achieved some things, using drama as therapy.
Though we are still not many – I don’t think we are up to 20 in a country of over 200 million people – it is something. We have started, and by the grace of God, we shall continue to increase.
I can conveniently say that in the coming years, drama therapy as a field will have more practitioners, who will have positive impacts on the society.
What impact do you believe drama therapy can have on individuals’ mental health and well-being?
The impact that drama therapy can have on individual’s mental health and well-being is too numerous to mention. Drama Therapy can be defined as a systematic and intentional use of drama and theatre processes and products to achieve the therapeutic goals of symptom relief, emotional and physical integration, and personal growth.
This underlines the fact that its importance in individual’s mental health and well-being cannot be negotiated, especially in a country like Nigeria, where currently people are undergoing various forms of stress, hardship and inconveniences.
All these must definitely have effects on their mental health and well-being. And through proper diagnosis and treatment via drama therapy, their mental health can be well improved.
If you take a cursory look at psychodrama and psychology, do they play any role in drama therapy?
Yes, taking a cursory look at psycho-drama and psychology, they do play roles in drama therapy. Now, let’s look at psycho-drama. Psycho-drama and drama therapy have a lot of similarities, and of course, they have differences, not only in the nomenclature but also in the practice and in the practitioners.
Practitioners of psycho-drama are usually people who are in psychology but have an interest in drama, while practitioners of drama therapy are artists who also have an interest in psychology.
So, that is where they crisscross. They have similarities, not forgetting that Jacob Levy Moreno, who could be said to be the father of psycho-drama, used drama as part of a cure or part of cures for psychiatric patients.
In the past, in using drama therapy as a cure for psychiatric patients, it involved the presence of other people in specialised areas, and these include, if possible, psycho-dramatists, drama therapists, psychologists, counsellors, and social workers.
In this part of the world, for now, if you want to give a relief or cure to a psychiatric patient, these five people ought to be on ground, or as many as possible, most of them ought to be on ground.
How do you balance your role as an academic, practitioner, and advocate for drama therapy?
One thing about academics is that it is not a 24-hour classroom business. That is what many people don’t understand. As an academician, a lecturer, your duty is teaching, research, and community development.
I find it easier to teach and disseminate what I have learnt to my students. Of course, I am a theatre artist to the core. I practise, aside from drama therapy. I am equally a theatre technologist. I am an assisting director. So, I practise my profession, which is where we have the experience .
It is not another course, where maybe you just have to read, understand and download. No. In the theatre, you need to be a practitioner. It is on the field that we come in contact with challenges and learn how to overcome them, and teach our students about these challenges, so that if they face similar ones, they will know how to overcome them, or any other one, and they can use the techniques they have been taught to overcome these challenges.
Of course, as an advocate for drama therapy, being one of my special areas, and combined with the facts that I know its benefits to humanity. I have no choice but to advocate its inclusion and practice in several institutions, which include psychiatric hospitals, general hospitals, correctional homes, remand homes, and so on.
What advice do you have for aspiring drama therapists looking to make a difference in their communities?
My advice is that it is not yet lucrative. It is passion-driven. If you are looking for money, you should forget about it. But if you want to contribute to community development and national growth, then you can continue because it is not yet a field that you can have government sponsors, individual sponsors, corporate organisation sponsors. I don’t blame all these people because they don’t understand its importance yet. I pray that in the nearest future, they will learn.
So, any aspiring drama therapist, who is looking for money, should please forget about it in this part of the world. However, if such a person has passion for it, please go ahead.
In what ways do you integrate drama education into universities? And how does this benefit students?
The thing is that it is not yet popular in this part of the world. In fact, for now, there is only one university in Africa that offers drama therapy as a full course, and it is in South Africa.
But what I do to introduce it to my students is that there is a course we have, which is called Applied Drama or Theatre for Development in some places, or Community Theatre. It is in this course that I incorporate the teaching of drama therapy because I usually take the course alone or with one or two of my colleagues.
So, I usually integrate drama therapy into the course, introduced it to students, and let them know the advantages, so that if there is anyone who is interested, can take it up later, may be at a higher degree. It is working because I have some of my students who are pursuing Masters Degrees in the field of drama therapy, through the introduction they had as undergraduates in different universities, not in my university alone.
How do you support and mentor drama artists in towns, and what do you think are the challenges they face in their careers?
Theatre, generally in this part of the world, has not been given its right position. This is my own point of view because theatre is not an all-comers’ affair if you want to be holistic.
It is not a matter of ‘I have money, I go to locations, I buy camera, I invite artistes and they start acting.’ No, it shouldn’t be like that.
This is why I have always been advocating that there should be legislation. If you are interested in practising drama, you need to be trained in the art of theatre, either through academics or through professionals who have made their names. They may not have a degree, but they have made their names in the field of theatre. It shouldn’t be that anyone who has money now should go to the market, buy equipment, and start practising. No.
So, I support and mentor drama artists in town through romancing with them, advising and counselling, attending their functions, whether they are in academics or not, and those that are not in academics that I believe have the potential.
I advise them, even if it is a diploma course or certificate course, they should go and do it in the university or college of education, and you would be a better person. And this is part of the challenges they face in their career. In most cases, when they are called to send their curriculum vitae, it is usually poor because they don’t have either formal or informal mentor, so to speak, that they can put on their CV, as in who mentored them, the school they graduated from and all that. But with time, I am sure we will get there.
How much interest can students, researchers, and other critical stakeholders show in the field of drama therapy?
People are now showing interest. My students, at least, I am happy, are showing interest, and even young researchers too. Currently, we have now had two or three students who have graduated from different universities in drama therapy. I think I have two or three more, who will graduate very soon. This is an improvement, and it is an encouragement. I am happy that is happening.
As for the critical shareholders, we will continue to bond them on the importance of drama therapy and the need for their support. But for now, I will say that the support is not encouraging. But we shall continue to forge ahead.
How do you advocate for the recognition and importance of drama therapy in mainstream healthcare and education systems?
The fact that we are not many in it constitutes a major problem in educating many people in the mainstream healthcare. But one thing I am happy to say is this, there is no health institution I go to, that at the end of the day, they’re not able to be convinced, and doesn’t wish I come again with my team. Even in places where we encountered difficulties in the initial stage, we always overcome them, and they always wish we come back, which is very good.
The point is because we are not many. How many places can one person or even 20 people go in the country of over 200 million people? But if we are many, I am sure that we will find it easy and we are going to be many.
This is why I have always been advocating its inclusion in the education system. I have always been doing this because it is one of the first starts, where people can get interested and grow their interest in the field
Can you share a success story where drama therapy has made a significant impact on an individual’s life?
I can share a success story where drama therapy has made a significant impact on an individual’s life. There was this psychiatric hospital I went to for the practice of drama therapy. I wasn’t allowed to use their patients because they don’t see it as too necessary.
I said there was no problem if I would not use their patients. But they should allow me to present a drama-therapeutic play for their patients.
Let me quickly say here that in the practice of Applied Drama, there are two methods that one can use. One is the hosted method, while the other is the migratory method.
The hosted method entails you employing or integrating the people in the play. You, as a catalyst now, will cast the patients or inmates or whoever, in the therapeutics play. They take roles along with members of your team.
The migratory method is a situation where you rehearse the therapeutic play from your base and just take it there, you’ll migrate there, and present it for them.
So, that was the first time I would visit that psychiatric hospital. They did not allow me to integrate their patients or have interaction with their patients, and I understood. But they also listened to my play because there is no harm in it.
On that day, I prepared a therapeutic play and took it there. Their patients were in the auditorium, and we were performing.
We got to a situation n the play, where an uncle raped a small girl of between seven and 10 years old. While this was going on, suddenly there was a scream in the auditorium. All eyes turned to the young lady that screamed. We finished our performance and I was invited after the performance with the girl that screamed, and with psychiatrists in attendance.
It was there that I learnt that, that girl had been with them for more than six months, and they could not penetrate into her. She locked up. She wasn’t speaking.
So, it was at that interaction that we got to know that what actually happened to the girl was trauma of being raped. She was a rape victim. So, that traumatic experience numbed her mind.
When she saw it on stage again, it replayed in her memory. It triggered something in her, which made her to scream. I was asked what to do, and of course, I told them she’s no longer a baby.
I first of all did what we called ‘Breaking the Ice’. I told them this is a special case, and she should not be seen as patient.
You have to see her as your child or grandchild. You have to listen to her and be patient with her as well. So, I took the girl through some sessions, not on that day alone, I think I went to the place for about 15 to 20 times.
But for the first two to three sessions, I couldn’t get what I wanted. But there were improvements. Then, the girl became my friend. And that was the beginning of the success story.
Today, glory be to God, the girl is okay, reunited with her family. Unless somebody knows her very well, nobody would know she has gone through such a traumatic experience.
What do you believe are the key qualities that make a successful drama therapist?
The key qualities that make a successful drama therapist are many. One, you must have adequate training. I was trained in Nigeria and abroad. Adequate training is the basis because through the training, you will be exposed to several techniques and methods which will make you a successful drama therapist.
It is not something that can be mentioned in the class and all that. It is through training that you will come across different challenges. You will ask questions, and you will face different things.
Also, it is not a matter of I can act, so I am a drama therapist. The fact that I know that if I have headache, I can use panadol does not make me a doctor. So, there is training for it, which is highly necessary
What is the future of drama therapy, both in Africa and globally?
Well, I see it is bright because many people are now making a voyage into the field. Many people are now understanding the importance and necessity of drama therapy. I think that is a big plus. So, I see the future as encouraging.
What are some misconceptions about drama therapy that you would like to debunk?
Some people believe that because they know about drama, they have become drama therapists or because they can act, or they are producers, then they are drama therapists, or they know films that can make people laugh and forget about their worries., they are now drama therapists. No.
Drama therapy goes beyond recommending a film or play for a patient. You have to understand the psychology of that patient. You have to penetrate the trauma affecting that patient.
So it is not because you know somebody is in a moody situation, you have to recommend to the person to go and watch a film. No.
One, what type of film? If you are not careful, it can be counterproductive. So, you need to have proper training so that you would know how to treat a patient.
People should not have the idea that because they have watched a film before and it was funny, therefore, the person that is moody should also watch the same film without diagnosing the patient.
What role do you see technology playing in the advancement of drama therapy practices?
Thank God for technology. It is playing a yeoman’s role. When I was undertaking courses in drama therapy, technology wasn’t this advanced. Now, we have drama therapy courses online, that all you need to do is to pay, log on, and you and your trainer will interact. You will ask questions. You will go through whatever he asks you to go through.
At the end of the day, you will learn. It is unlike when you have to travel to the US or UK for this training.
Right now, the money for the flight is much less than what we pay online to get the same training. The only difference is that you are at the comfort of your home rather than being with the therapist.
So, technology has made things easier, and before you know it, we will have more therapists as long as they can afford the training.
How do you relax? What do you do for fun?
I relaxed majorly by reading. I enjoy reading. When I say reading, it is not necessarily serious academic books now. It can be novels. I also enjoy writing. So, I enjoy reading and writing a lot. I also enjoy travelling to different places just for the fun of it.
For fun, I also enjoy cooking. I love cooking because I like good food. I like eating. I enjoy experimenting with food, mixing this and this, and seeing what will be the outcome.