From Paul Osuyi, Asaba
The senator representing Delta North (Anioma nation) at the National Assembly, Senator Ned Nwoko has declared that it was of no economic value for Nigeria to have reserves in foreign countries like America or the United Kingdom. Nwoko who is in the NASS on the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), in this interview, also gave reasons why he vehemently opposed the military action against the junta in Niger Republic when there was coup in the neighbouring country. The former member of the House of Representatives also spoke on other issues including his plans for Ndi-Anioma.
How has it been in the past four months when you were sworn-in as a senator?
It is not something that happened by accident, I prepared myself before time. It’s an assignment that I understand what needs to be done, so I went into it believing that there are things I can do to make a difference in and around Nigeria not just for Delta North but within the country and beyond. In my motions, bills and interviews, you would have seen my area of interest. For instance, when the president sought the National Assembly approval to position the military against Niger Republic, I was one of those that vehemently opposed it for various reasons. For me, the most important reason was that I love Africa, and I feel Africa has not really got a good deal as a continent. We have been denied and deprived, and I strongly believe that yes, we have many problems, most of which were caused by the colonialists.
Why do you blame the colonialists for our woes?
If you have lived in the UK or America, you will come to understand that we are so blessed in Africa; we have so many resources including humans but the arrangements post independence, we are not really independent; we are not able to fend for ourselves, we are not able to manufacture things for ourselves; we are not able to manage ourselves. I mean the average country in Africa rely heavily on goods manufactured by the West. How come we are not able to process the raw materials into finished goods? And sell them to the western countries? By the time you do that, your factories will be so busy employing people and paying salaries. But rather, we sell the raw materials to them and they use their own labour to process and refine and send back to us at a huge cost. Yes, we might be independent politically but economically, we are tied down like slaves. Take another example, we have a foreign reserve as a country; Foreign reserves means your savings for the rainy day against credit. Our foreign reserves is domiciled in America, the French speaking African countries have their foreign reserves domiciled in France. They treat us like kids, this was the arrangement before independence. So, why are we still behaving like our forefathers did in pre-independence? America, France, China have their own reserves and they are not called foreign reserves, their reserves are in their country. It is like you having your savings in a bank of your choice, you don’t give it to a friend or neighbour to keep for you. You can imagine if the so-called foreign reserves are brought back and domiciled with, for example, 10 banks here. If we have $40 billion in our reserve, instead of it being left in New York where it is used to finance loans for their people, that is what is happening, the money is not in an account there; it is just a paper, that money is not lying and waiting for Nigeria. The money is being utilised to lend to their people who qualify to get access to funding. So, that money along with others help those countries to run their economies. So, why are we not doing the same? Why can’t we call it quits with them? And close the accounts there and bring the money back here to be managed by about 10 or five banks with strict instructions that they lend to deserving citizens at not more than five percent interest rates. Why are we not thinking outside the box as they say? Why must we just carry on as if we have no common sense?
On coup in Niger Republic, can you expatiate on why you opposed military option against the junta?
America and British governments also wanted us, ECOWAS, to mobilise and bring our soldiers together to go and remove another man who is fighting them, who is telling them to stop the economic exploitation. Telling them that the uranium taken is enough, we know how much it is sold in the commodity market in New York and London. You buy from us with peanuts and take it there to sell at huge profits. The junta said they don’t want them to carry on with it, you now call ECOWAS to remove them; you can’t remove them. I am totally opposed to any country in Africa going to war with another African country on behalf of America or Europe. If you look at the pictures from those countries whether it is Burkina Faso, Niger Republic or Mali, the people are so happy that there are patriotic people who have come to stop the exploitation. It is happening in Nigeria as well in the oil sector.
All the oil companies that we have, many of them were pre-1960; the agreements are so one-sided, something that they chose to do. How many Nigerians are involved in the production of crude or gas? We are not even involved in refining because there are processes of distillation from when you produce the crude to when you refine, maybe we are just involved in the distribution of refined products when it is brought back.
The bottom line is that we are terribly exploited, we need to look at the agreements, we need to make them account for all they are doing but beyond that, many of them don’t take seriously their duties to host communities, they just do whatever they like. Even if there is a spillage, it destroys the environment, they carry on as if nothing has happened; they will still wait for the Nigerian government to budget for the cleanup
They will not do that in America or any other oil producing country around the world. There are international best practices that they would be compelled to apply but in Nigeria, because of conspiracy with some of our people, they exploit us terribly. So, I see myself in the mould of the people who are saying enough of that. You would have heard about my position on reparation because the economic problems that are being described are part of it whether it is the natural resources or artifact or art work, they just do whatever they like because we allow them to do it.
That is one area, the area has to do with what is happening in Nigeria. I am particularly concerned about flood, erosion, environmental degradation, and pollution through gas flaring, that is why I am in the committee on environment. Of course, there are many things to look at, roads are so important for me, the roads are in terrible condition across the country. I just want a country that can begin to do things for the people.
With the picture you have painted in terms of relationship with the West as it has to do with your advocacy for reparation and debt owed by African countries, how would you further these agitations tying it to debt cancellation?
I have taken steps towards realising the quest for reparation and repatriation. About three weeks ago, I had a meeting with the British High Commissioner to Nigeria and I gave him a letter addressed to the Prime Minister of Great Britain on reparation. And I am waiting for them to reply me substantively, and when they reply, and base on what they reply, we will decide on what next to do. Either we start to negotiate with them, mobilise other countries in Africa, it is not something Nigeria alone should be championing; every country in Africa should be at the forefront of this.
I was very happy when I saw the president of Ghana at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) meeting earlier in October, the speech he gave did make reference to reparation. Of course, reparation can come in so many ways, one of which is that they could say we are really guilty, we are sorry, you are asking for five trillion, let us give this money to you guys to try and improve your economy, invest in telecommunication, invest in roads, invest in university education. Or they can also do a set off, in which they say we are owing you XYZ amount, you can cancel some of them; the other ones we can negotiate. But this one could be much difficult to achieve because most of the lenders are not government; they are commercial banks lending to countries in Africa.
It is only when debtor nations fail to pay these loans as and when due that the countries of the lending bank would step in to prevent the bank from folding up and resulting in job loss. What they would do is to buy up that debt by paying the bank fully and then face the debtor country to negotiate how that debt could be paid, for instance, a fixed amount every month. Reparation should be treated separately; it should not be tied to debt cancellation. Let me tell you how they cancel debt, when you hear of debt cancellation, they are really playing with our mind because we are generally foolish. What is debt cancellation? You borrow one billion over time and maybe after 20 years, the interest has got to 20 billion. But in the meantime you have paid about 12 billion in terms of debt servicing.
There is a balance of eight billion. So you pay the capital fully, you have also paid part of the interest. But in an effort to manage whatever that is left, the interest component, they say is debt forgiveness, they have forgiven part of the interest, not the capital. It is only the interest that they forgive but they will not make the distinction when speaking. That is exactly what they do, that was my experience when I dealt with the Paris Club exit and refund for Nigeria.
You are averse to war in Africa, but in the case of Niger, there is disruption of democracy. Does it not worry you that democracy is disrupted in Niger? How do you reconcile your aversion to war and the disruption of democracy?
There are many countries where you have ongoing wars. If you understand the impact of war in any country, nothing justifies any kind of war. The people who are clamouring for war might not be doing it because they want democracy; for them, democracy is just a platform to peacefully do what they are doing to exploit those nations. I am a pacifist, I look at the case of Niger. For instance, there is no war in Niger because we have shown some restraint. They were not talking about going to war against Niger to restore democracy; they were talking about war going to remove the military guys for them to continue the exploitation. It is not a choice between military regime and democracy, it is a choice between military regime and exploitation by the foreigners.
What is your plan for the youth of this senatorial district?
I do have a bill that is waiting to be listed. It deals with making funds available to youths who are entrepreneurs. For you to qualify for it, you have to show that you are business-oriented. Our economy cannot boom and suddenly become what we desired unless people have access to financing. This bill, which is a product of what I discussed with my people during the campaigns, is to be managed through the banks, some will come by way of grants, while some will come with a very minimal interest payment. If you know how things happen in the UK, if you are a graduate, you have business to run, if you go to a bank they will give you a facility with two to five percent interest. If you get a loan of 10 million at five percent, it amounts to almost nothing, you can manage it as opposed to the banks here in Nigeria where the interest is between 20 and 25 percent on a loan of 10 million. In a month you are talking about over two million interests, there is no way anyone can survive with that. But if it is about 200,000 a month, anybody can do it. There are many things lined up for youths, this is just one of them. There is the palliative, the only budget we have approved though not exclusively for the youths, it is for the poor. Anybody whether you are a youth or adult and you do not have any income, you are poor. So we have put about 800 billion down. The disbursement will start by next month. The beneficiaries will be getting N25,000 per month, and it will increase over time to N350,000 like a pay off. This is just for those described as vulnerable and the disabled. Every local government has been mandated to submit names of anybody that qualifies. But for you to have it, you must have your National Identification Number (NIN), that is the only qualification apart from the fact that you don’t have money to feed. Who is poor? It is that person that cannot afford what to buy. I can also use the opportunity to mention the one that is exclusively packaged for market women, the number is yet to be determined but we hope that in every senatorial district, they can empower about 20,000 women. This is something that I know would help so many people, and this came about as a result of the removal of fuel subsidy.
In the face of the present economic hardship being experienced, our leaders have asked that the citizens should further tighten their belts. But in the face of that, NASS members would be given vehicles worth N160 million each. How would you reconcile the situation?
Just as the Senate President said when the issue was being discussed, he said most senators here don’t need these cars, he said people like Ned don’t need the cars that they have already. My name was the only name he mentioned. And when I stood up to speak, I said it is not only me, all the former governors here don’t need the cars as well. This actually happened. But that is not to say that we don’t need cars, these are operational vehicles. Every ministry, for instance, has operational vehicles. Permanent Secretaries, Ministers have operational vehicles, they move around. We have oversight functions. You want me to use my personal vehicle to move from Abuja to Maiduguri for oversight duties? So we have a need for these vehicles. Look, let us not try to spread poverty by saying that some people don’t have cars, others should not have it. We should be clamouring that everybody has a car. How do we do it that in Nigeria everybody has a car? It is by making money available through the banks, it works in such a simple mechanism. If they bring back our foreign reserves, the banks could be mandated to ensure that every teacher, nurse, doctor, journalist, as the case may be, who can show that they are working, have an account where they receive money, even if it is N10,000 a month, give them the facility to buy a new car. I went to primary school here in this village. I remember that my primary school teachers had cars. The issue you should be talking about is not why should NASS members have cars, how do we move around? You should be saying that you also need your own car, we must work to ensure that everybody has access to funding to be able to buy the car of their choice. I am against them buying cars for me, if anything, they should give me the money, let me go and buy the cars of my choice. This was what formed the rational in sponsoring a bill when I was in the House of Representatives that there should be a way of monetising allowance. I don’t believe in the government building houses or buying cars, they should release the money through bank funding, for the people to buy the car of their choice or build the house of their choice. So, we must strive to improve the quality of living, don’t always think that those who are rich are your enemies. No! I would rather encourage you to find a way to be like me so that we can all be happy. Of what use is it that I am the only one with a big house and big cars? But I am not going to wait for you to be like you, you should aspire and struggle to be like me.
What is your message for Ndi-Anioma?
They have a senator that is prepared to be a senator, a senator who is not there for a contract, a senator who understands what it is to serve as a parliamentarian. I know that in the next few months if not now, people will know who I am. I know that I am known, so instead of introducing myself every time, I rather use the time to speak. So I go straight to the point. Anioma is going to be better in all ramifications because I know exactly what has to be done, from education to health; from roads to transportation, every sector. That is why I chose my committees. So we have laid the foundation now for the next three to four years. I will have no excuses and there will be no conflict between me and Anioma.