By Juliana Taiwo-Obalonye, Abuja
The crisis in Plateau State has become a worrying situation as it has lingered for too long without any solution in sight. Dozens of people were killed in Mangu local government area of the state, last week resulting in the State Government imposing a 12 hour curfew. This is coming after more than 100 people lost their lives in similar violence in other parts of Plateau during Christmas.
Disturbed by the worsening situation in Plateau, Speaker of the House of Representatives, Tajudeen Abbas, disclosed that he is set to meet with President Bola Tinubu, with a view to finding measures to secure the lives and the property of the people.
In this interview with Arise News Television’s Morning Show monitored from Abuja, Hon. Dachung Bagos, a former member of the House of Representatives (Jos South/East Federal Constituency), spoke on what they want the Speaker to discuss with President Tinubu.
What has been your reaction on the basis of the statements made by the Supreme Court in the Mutfwang’s case?
Well, unfortunately, the law is the law and as lawmakers when we have seen such lacuna, all we need to look at are what are those doctrine of necessity to see how we are going to address this issue. Because, we should be able to look at this even beyond us. If this judicial anarchy is not addressed now; in 2027, 2031, it can still repeat itself and everything ends at the appeal court and you still get the right judgment and the Supreme Court for the governor and it continues like that. We can’t continue in that path.
So what are those steps that needs to be taken at this particular moment either for us or for subsequent lawmakers to be able to right the wrong? Clearly, the Supreme Court stated out that look what the Court of Appeal did was wrong in the first place; they lacked jurisdiction. So, in such a manner of statement by the Supreme Court, and you should know that most of the Supreme Court judges were judges from the appellate court as well, so if you have such senior state judges making such a statement at this particular moment, even if we are going to right the wrong on our own issue, we should be able to look at what is the doctrine of necessity that will be able to come into play to look into this. But we are so hopeful looking at those areas that according to the law that we’ll be able to look at these issues squarely. If not, how do we ensure that it doesn’t repeat itself in 2027? Because it’s about the Nigerian people, is about the mandate of the people, is not about me as an individual. But how is it that the votes of the people are securely be secured by the judiciary?
Let’s talk about the Plateau crisis or what has been termed the Plateau killings. As one time Representative of Jos South/East, you would understand being on ground what really triggers these killings. I don’t want to assume that they are unprovoked or are they unprovoked? Some people have said it’s the farmer/herder clash, others have said it is a deliberate attempt to annihilate a particular section or group of people living in Plateau State. From your experience and speaking with the people of Plateau State, especially in these local government areas, what would you say is the remote and immediate cause of all these killings in Plateau?
Let me say that the wrong narratives have been put on the table to diagnose the issue of killings and I must warn you in as much as we want to maybe as journalists, you want to be correct with some certain words. There is no crisis on the Plateau and there is no clash on the Plateau. Because number one, if there is crisis on the Plateau, you will find out that over the years that the killings that have taken place on the Plateau, you could have seen either the farmers and herders, all of them have casualties.
But this is a situation where a community will be sleeping and at the end of the day, the night they will be killed, chased out of their own community. So that is absolutely not a clash. Unless we change and look at the narratives, we will not get the solutions right. But if you always call it a clash or call it a crisis, call Christians, Muslims or ethnic groups together to the table, take tea and proffer solutions that are practically mere conflict solution; it will never solve the situation and that has been the major problem on the Plateau that the wrong narrative has been given. What is happening is pure genocide, land grabbing. People come into communities kill, chase these people and occupy their land. And it’s not just a mere statement, the facts and proofs are there.
Over the years since 2001, over 60 communities have been wiped out on the Plateau. They come, kill the residents, chase them out and occupy. So these are issues that we need to further do some proper security forensic analysis of killings on the Plateau.
Why those killings? And to me, we have so much flogged on these issues without properly bringing out some possible solutions because I will not be representing hundreds of thousands of people and I want to be politically correct because of some certain things. No, the issue here is that our people are being killed. They’re being chased out of their own communities and at the same time, you cannot go back to those communities because is already occupied, not just occupying it, heavily guarded.
Because they are communities today on the Plateau that even security agencies cannot even go to. So we should start asking what is going on in these communities? And some of us have gone further to make some of these researches that look, why these continuous killings on the Plateau.
The first thing that we’re able to identify is that the wrong narrative have been given to the killings on the Plateau, farmers- herders, it is not so. Religious, it is not so. But people bring in the element of religion into these killings so that they will be able to do what they did. The major purpose that we identify and if you look at the chronology of all the villages that have been wiped out on the Plateau, each and every one of them has one or two economic potentials on the Plateau.
So at the end of the day, you will find out that a side will try to ignite crisis and to say it is religious, the Christians are killing the Muslims or the Muslims are killing the Christians. You find those elements in that place. But at the same time, there was something that still provoked those issues that made it happen, an undertone. The major reason in all the communities that have been wiped out on the Plateau, all of them today, go back to those communities, you will see that some people are mining in those communities that we cannot even access. Go to some of these communities, you will see that they are highly vegetational that you can farm, you can rear cows there. They have streams. So all these communities are for a certain target. There are communities on the Plateau that are hilly, you can’t farm there. You can’t do anything much there, there’s no mining, no mineral resources in those areas. They have never in the history of Plateau been attacked.
So in essence what you’re saying is that is an illegal mining problem, no religious slant?
Absolutely. Because in every genocidal killing in the world, look at it be it war, be it killing, there is an element that they usually bring out as a face. Study crisis, study war you will see that they give you a fake face, they give you a fake face in terms of to provoke religious crisis but the major reason is that so that people will be able to leave these communities.
In Mangu for instance, Mangu is the only local government that has the highest produce of grains on the Plateau in the Middle Belt, of potatoes and so on, so forth. Even the mining activities in those areas…in my own local government and others it is the same thing. So we need to come to the table to diagnose the issues of killings on the Plateau properly before we will be able to get the solution.
Okay, so are you saying that the people that are saying that there’s a slant to it that some people of certain extraction are coming to take their land from them are wrong? The DHQ said, they killed bandits from a particular extraction, a particular group and a the particular tribe. So are you saying that they are wrong? Are you saying the targeting of religious institutions like churches or mosques are wrong? Are you saying that people that have even alleged complicity with the military are wrong? That even the CAN chairman in that area that called out the military are wrong? Are you saying no, there’s no slant of religion, or ethnicity or land grabbing? Are you saying they’re wrong? Are you saying that General Ayoola that talked about the caliphates point of view that some people are trying to build a caliphate? Are you saying they’re all wrong?
I’m not saying that they are wrong. I said look, most of these things that you see are faces of most of the killings on the Plateau. If you go to Mangu, churches are being burnt. If you go to Mangu, you will see that Christians are being killed. If you go to these areas, you see all these things but I want you to look at the aftermath of all these, what happened? Do people go back to those communities? When all this is said and done in the next two, three months, go back to those communities, what is happening in those communities? Are these churches being rebuilt? Are these houses that were burnt, are they being built and people going back to those communities? No. Rather you will go and see different activities going on in those communities. The people that are doing whatever in those communities are heavily guarded.
I’m not saying all those are wrong but in the aftermath, do people usually go back to these communities again to occupy their communities? Those churches or those houses that were burnt, are they being rebuilt? No.
These people chased away people with whatsoever narration but at the end of the day, they occupy those lands because clearly, that is land grabbing for whatsoever purpose that happened three, four or five months aftermath of that.
The narrations are there. What is the chronology of this? Go back since 2001, as a journalist, investigate the issues of killings; I can give you all the names of the villages that have been wiped out on the Plateau. Visit them, go with whatever security you can, if you can be access those communities. So what happened after all these things have taken place? It is not what happened now but do our people usually go back to those communities? That’s what I really want us to think further and to look further into. Can government today, all the 60 villages that have been wiped out, can they guarantee that our people will go back to those places? No, because we have spoken about this, government has made so much promises that our people from IDPs will get… why you won’t find most of the IDPs on the Plateau is because they have reintegrated into different communities that there are no killings. So the narration is not wrong but what happened afterwards?
Indeed, the crisis on the Plateau dated back to 1994, the government of Nigeria set up the Fiberesima commission. In 2001, there was the Niki Tobi Commission of Inquiry still on the crisis. We had the Sankey commission, we’ve had Ajibola panel of inquiry. We’ve had presidential initiative on the Plateau all through the years. But nobody has done anything about the reports and the recommendations of these various panels and commissions.
Cuts in…can you tell me the recommendations? Are these recommendations?
Cuts in…I have listed these…
Cuts in…I have always said that most of the recommendations for peace on the Plateau are political peace. We cannot continue on political matters and bring political peace on the table, it will not last. It’s just like putting an icing on a bitter leaf cake, it will not last, when you finish taking the icing, you will get the real issues. Why is it that all the recommendations, all the investigations have not worked from 2001? Be it Niki Tobi, be it whatsoever commission of inquiry that has been on the Plateau. In 2001, there were killings, villages were sacked in communities in 2001. Go to those villages between the recommendation for peaceful coexistence, between the recommendation for guardians of forgiveness, between the recommendation of Muslims and Christians staying in one place, between the recommendation of look let’s rebuild, go to those recommendations. All those were political peace, have people gone back to their villages since 2001? That is a question that I’m asking government, that is the question that I’m asking leaders.
Well, Hon, Bagos, incidentally, all those panels and Commissions of inquiry, their reports were never publicly released or implemented. But maybe the point you are making is that lack of political will is part of the problem. But there is a point that has been made in this latest round of violence, which is the chairman of the Christian Association in Mangu local government, saying that look, there has been complicity of security agencies. That in this latest round of attacks, just as was the case in December 2023, the security agencies were alerted, even before the attacks, nobody did anything. Why do you think that the security agencies, the military, the police, will be so complacent to the extent that the victims will be accusing them of complicity?
Well, that is the question I have always asked because I’m a victim. I’m a victim as well. In as much as I am a leader and I’m representing my people, I have put myself in the same shoe with my people. It is the same question that we have been asking from 2001 or thereabout, all the formations, be it Operation Safe Heaven, be it whatsoever formation have been set up on the Plateau. Taxpayers money have been spent on the Plateau in terms of addressing insecurity. Why is it that the security agencies have not been able to curtail it? This is the question that all of us are asking. I’m not a security personnel but they should be able to give us the answers. We need to invite security here because I know that as Nigerians, we have strong belief that our security agencies have the capacity to address the issues of insecurity in Nigeria. So, why is it that they will be so overwhelmed with what is happening on the Plateau and other places and other cities within the country? Is it that we have not provided the required funds for them? Is it that they don’t have the equipment to address these issues?
And by the way, in the 21st century, why is it that technology is not being deployed to address this issue? That you will find that from point A to point B with a travel time of over one hour, people will move in motorbikes in their hundreds to attack a community, they will take one hour, two, three hours to ravage that community. Drive out again on the same motorbike. We don’t have satellite that can be able to identify the movement of these people. The security agencies don’t have binoculars that can be able to check and comb this people? We don’t have drones that can be…so what kind of kinetic and non kinetic approach are we going to use to address the issue of insecurity in Nigeria that we cannot deploy technology in the 21st century? There are instances on the issue of killings on the Plateau that we even found SIM cards on the floor. We took those SIM cards to the security, nothing.
There are instances that we found ID cards of these people on those sites that they came to ravage our communities. Either you will see that they are fake military ID cards or the military whatsoever ID cards, we found those, we push them forward but nothing has been done. But at the end of the day, you will see that when our youths come out to put defense, they are the ones that will fall victims of arrest or at the end of the day, if intel shows that this person is part of what has happened within the community, he will be arrested and tomorrow you hear that he has been moved to Abuja or he has been moved to another location, no more issue.
As people, as representatives, as leaders, we want to see that the security agencies told us that this is the person we have arrested. We are taking him to court, all of us will be in court to see that justice is being done. Just like from the review you made of one of the killers in Nottingham, in the UK, the family’s noticed. We want to see today on the Plateau that this is the person or these are group of people that have been arrested. They are taken to court, all of us will mobilize to go to court to see how justice is being dispensed, how they are being sentenced. This is the kind of justice we are looking for in those kind of killings, not that our people will be killed and we will be chased out.
So these are issues but the narrative that today…we want to see action. Enough of talking; that is not the solution we’re looking for.
I get your point but be careful how you recommend to resort to technology. The last time the Nigerian military deployed technology in Kaduna, they went there and killed the wrong people. And they said it was human error. So technology is a double edged sword…
Cuts in…When you want to use technology and you are not technologically inclined, the technology will definitely not synchronize with you. So it’s not about just using… we need the right people. Who are those people that have been going for training? See if today some governors are being investigated for using security votes, why can’t we check the security votes that are being used on security agencies to address the issue of insecurity in our places that up till now, we have not got the solution. Because our fear as leaders, is that we shouldn’t allow people to get up and to resort to self help because that is going to be dangerous for all of us.
What has been the impact of operation safe haven? Is it just headlines we’re seeing and no impact in terms of controlling and bringing some form of rest to the people of Mangu local government, Bokkos, Birnin Ladi and other parts of Plateau state?
For me, the security agencies I will say they have done their best, they have every intent but to some extent, they are being overwhelmed with the situation on ground. They are well experienced. They have the intels, they’re intelligent, they know the situation on ground but from what I’m seeing, is it that they are being overwhelmed. Because if today, a bye election will take place and 20,000 security personnel will be sent to those areas to protect votes, why can’t those kind of number of security personnel be sent to Plateau to be able to protect and prevent this kind of killings? Because every life is very important that without the lives, you will not be able to get the votes.
So, when you see those kinds of security arrangement that they do for elections on the Plateau, they should be done to save life before the elections. Because to me, the security agencies have done their best; what more needs to be done because for now, what they are practically doing, is to calm nerves but they need to preempt and to prevent as well as to forestall it from happening; that is what the security needs to do now. It is not when it has happened, they come and be calming nerves and to take charge at checkpoints. No, the essence is to preempt if there is any intel, no matter whether it is true.
The meeting between the Speaker of the House and the President what should be on the agenda and what difference will this meeting make? Are you optimistic or are the people optimistic for this meeting?
You see, to be frank, I’m tired of tea meetings. I’m tired of political statements on issue of insecurity in Nigeria. We want to see action. So we want to see Justice. President has given directives. This is the first time we are seeing that a President is giving directives not that he’s condemning because previously, we usually have condemned and perpetrators will be brought to book. But this is the first time the President has given directives. So we want to see that the directives of the President have been followed and to see that these people have been arrested. It is no longer about tea discussion.
If the Speaker is meeting the President, we want to see the proactive measures of justice. There cannot be proper peace without justice. Justice must be dispensed with the people that are being killed. Justice must be brought to people that their houses and churches were burnt. If justice is given everyone, because the person that usually comes for this injustice will not even come because he knows that when he gets to this very community, he will meet justice, he will be repelled. So, they will not even go.
Go to Wase today. Wase is predominantly a Muslim area but killings are going on in Wase today because of what? Because of mining. So when we give the wrong narration on these killings on the Plateau, those that want to promote religious killings will do that and that’s why you now see that when followers now take it religiously, you will see that churches are being burnt. Christians are being killed. Muslims have the same attack if they come in. But why is it that only one side are the victims of these killings on the Plateau? And you’ll now come and tell me that this is clash, is farmer/herder… no, that is not the narration.
The first form of justice is that let our people go back to their farms, let our people go back to their villages. Let our children start going back to school. Then we will now know that justice has been dispensed. We will now know that when these people are moving in their bikes to a certain location that the military operation, Safe Haven have been able to curtail that.
They’re in hundreds; they usually move in hundreds in each… okay calculate 100 bikes multiply by three people on a bike that is 300. The total number of Operation Safe Haven in Plateau State, are they up to 1000? But if there will be a bye election tomorrow in Plateau State, you will have 20,000 security personnel. Where is the Civil Defense? Where are the police? Where are the Mobile police, why is the strength only on the military? They are being overwhelmed. But these are issues that we need to look into.